The History of Wrestling at the Elks Lodge, Queens NY

 

This might be the most ‘old man’ thing I’ve said on this channel, but I really appreciate an interesting looking venue. ECW ran quite a few of these, making a lot of their shows look unique and interesting. Promotions today hold events in all manner of places, from First Wrestling having their annual event in the Mall of America, to GCW’s Ukrainian Culture Center. These venues help to set promotions apart, and create an interesting atmosphere. Undoubtedly the one of the most interesting that I’ve ever seen was an Aztec inspired theatre in of all places, Queens New York. It’s still there to this day, though rarely used for wrestling.




In this video, we’ll look at the history of the Elks Lodge in Queens. We’ll start with before ECW, then we’ll look at the venue itself, some highlights of the ECW years, and it’s life post 2000.




Before arriving in the Elks Lodge, ECW’s previous New York venue was the Lost Battalion Hall, which is about a mile down the road. According to reports, the capacity seems to have been anywhere up to twelve hundred for the early shows there in 1995. That’s more than the Elks Lodge held, which appears to be around nine hundred. Every source gives a different number, and we’ll get to the reason for that in a little while. ECW moving from the Lost Battalion Hall to the Elks Lodge could well have come down to money. Presumably the Elks was cheaper if it held less fans. It could have also been because Paul Heyman seemed to really like the place, christening it the “Madhouse of Extreme”. When ECW was about to begin their ill fated run on TNN, Paul seemed to want to make sure against the network’s wishes, that the Madhouse would be the site of the first set of tapings for the new show. On September 8th 2013, at a WWE live event at the Barclays center in Brooklyn, Paul Heyman, standing next to Curtis Axel, would dismiss the three year old arena, which reportedly cost a billion dollars to build. He would tell the live crowd that it was “a dump compared to an Elks Lodge in Queens,” nearly thirteen years after he would have last set foot there.




One more idea, and this is just me speculating, is that it could also have come down to the building being under the New York City department of Parks and Rec, which I bet isn't as fun as it looks on TV. While ECW always had an edge to it, I doubt a government building and flaming tables would have gone down too well.




Building




Before we get to the Elks Lodge’s history with wrestling, a little background on the building itself. To use it’s proper name, Elks Lodge number 878 had long since stopped being a member-only establishment by the time ECW arrived. The main part of the building was put up for sale by the Elks in 1995, and would eventually be used as a Church. More on that later as it almost stopped shows taking place there several times. The most distinctive part of the venue is the amazing Aztec inspired carvings that surround the stage, and wrap around the balcony. If only Lucha Underground could have been filmed there before the once colourful theater was painted a much more dull colour. According to an article published in 2011 for Scouting New York .com, this was done by the current owners to make the imagery a little less intimidating. They used a different word.




In the 2013 documentary Barbed Wire City, ECW fan and attendee of the Elks Lodge Tony Lewis provided a tour of the venue outside and in, with some rather unique insights. He starts by showing us a fire escape, and tells us that the majority of the ring had to be carried two floors up the outside of the building, as this is where the lower level of the theater was. When he shows us the inside, he points out a window that the ring parts would have to be pushed through. If you, like I have, have ever watched a show from the Elks Lodge and wondered how they fit the reported attendance figures of up to a thousand fans into the small looking venue, the simplest answer is sometimes the best. Tony tells us that a plaque used to be up on the wall telling that the max capacity for the theater was six hundred and fifty three, and ECW would break this regularly with complete disregard. I’ll not tell you everything that Tony shares, and I’ll also include a link to the full segment in the description because it’s worth a watch. One final thing I will add is about a local legend that the Elks Lodge could call its own. Their version of the Straw hat guy. In fact, take it away Tony. *clip*




By the time ECW started putting on shows there, wrestling had already been promoted in the Elks Lodge before. The Pro Wrestling Torch lists an event from December 1996 for a promotion called Ultimate Championship Wrestling, a few months before ECW first ran there. The most notable names that were on this card were ECW talent Tommy Cairo, and ex-WWF stars Jim Neidhart, and in the main event Chris Chavis without the Tatanka gimmick, who beat King Kong Bundy by count out. Not a five count out I assume. Going even further back, in the Wrestling Observer there's evidence of a promotion called Universal Wrestling Superstars running there in ‘92. This card advertised Jimmy Snuka against Demolition Ax, just Ax mind, and SD Jones, whose career was winding down at this point. UWS ran the New York and New Jersey area starting in the late 80’s. According to a site that specialises in documenting Wrestling from New York, their last event in Queens was the card the Observer referenced in ‘92, but the promotion would keep going elsewhere until 1997, and right to the end they would continue to feature local talent on the undercard and former WWF stars on top. Their last main event would be Jimmy Snuka vs Typhoon.




1997




So now we get to ECW’s time in the Elks Lodge. Overall there are nineteen events, some TV tapings and others house shows that took place there. This isn’t going to be a comprehensive deep dive because we’d be here for hours. I will stop off at everything of note that happened in relation to the venue. On April 5th 1997, ECW ran their first event at the Madhouse. The first thing to note about this event is that it took place just eight days before Barely Legal, the company’s first pay per view and a huge milestone for the company. Despite not being an official TV taping and only being filmed by the fan cam, footage would air on the last episode of Hardcore TV before the pay per view, making this the first time the Elks Lodge appeared on televised wrestling show.




They would show part of a match between Rob Van Dam and Pitbull #2, where Van Dam hit a dive and unintentionally clocked Pitbull One, who medics rushed to in case he had reinjured his neck. Shane Douglas would attack him, which was part of the final build towards him versus Pitbull Two at Barely Legal.




Also on the episode, ECW would air a three team tag title match featuring the Gangstas, and two teams who would meet again on the pay per view, the Dudley Boyz and the Eliminators. In this match New Jack would perform a balcony dive, on the very first show in the building mind. These two segments would be the only parts of the show that would ever air on Hardcore TV.

After the first show at the Madhouse, Paul Heyman would gush about the night in an interview with the Torch “In my opinion we had our best spot show, if not our best house show, ever in Queens on Saturday night. The audience was so into the show. It was one of our best shows.” Ye alright Paul, you’re sounding a bit like another promoter.




While the fans at the Elks Lodge were getting to see title matches and TV episodes being taped at future shows, it would be a bit longer before they would actually see a championship change hands. On October 16th, which would again be a TV taping, Bam Bam Bigelow would defeat Shane Douglas for the ECW World title. In all of the events that ECW would have at the Elks, this would be the one and only World title change, though Shane would win his title back a month later at the November to Remember pay per view. Hardcore TV would show future world title changes, but this would be the last one to take place specifically to air on the show, with many after taking place on pay per view, and a couple happening on TNN. You’d have to look to the WWE ECW days to find the next time the ECW World title changed hands with so few viewers watching, mainly because half the crowd had their backs turned.




The final noteworthy event from 1997 came on December 26th, which could have become an annual tradition for ECW, as they held an event there on the same night in ‘98 too. This show starts off unlike regular ECW shows, in that it featured a match between two New Japan wrestlers. The Great Sasuke, who had wrestled for ECW earlier in the year including at Barely Legal, would face Tiger Mask IV, who along with the next night in New Jersey was making his only two appearances for the company. The two get off to a slow start and the crowd begins to boo, even calling out “bullshit,” and some quite offensive against the Japanese chants as the two exchange holds on the mat. While the Torch says nothing about this match, Wade Keller notes that when the two had a rematch on the following night, “The crowd chanted “boring” and “this match sucks” early on.” The only match of the night that would be taped for television would air on January 5th, and it would be an eight man tag team match that played on the ECW vs WWF feud that had been taking place for months. The ECW team of Taz, Sandman, Tommy Dreamer and Al Snow would defeat the WWF team of Doug Furnas, Phil Lafon, Rob Van Dam and Sabu. I promise it makes more sense in the context of the feud why Sabu was on the WWF team, and I am oversimplifying it a bit. Al Snow, who was actually a WWF signed wrestler who had been sent to ECW and developed his new character there, would get the win by roll up on Doug Furnas, and by Summer would be back on Raw, bringing Head with him. The multi person tag match where the good guys triumph would become something of a tradition, as the next year New Jack, Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten would best the Dudley Boyz to send the crowd home happy.




1998




After a few months away, ECW would return to the Madhouse on March 13th, with an event that the Observer noted had been “sold out several days ahead of time.” Dave makes note there that the capacity is 800, but in the following week’s issue lists a thousand as the attendance. Either Paul is inflating the numbers, or the fire code took a pounding on this night. While the March event was another house show, ECW’s next show at the Elks Lodge is one of the more important ones, as a few memorable moments took place. It is also known for having one of the most distinctive names of any ECW show. On May 14th ‘98, the promotion presented ‘It Ain’t Seinfeld,’ named as such because on the same night, the final episode of Seinfeld was airing. This is completely irrelevant, but as a kid growing up in the UK, we didn’t have Seinfeld, Jerry or his Sitcom, and so for years I had no fucking idea what that name even meant. I guess you could say, Hey whats the deal? Sorry.




This show is notable for more than just it’s name though, as Taz came to the ring with a bag in his hand. He would explain that he felt that the World champion Shane Douglas had been ducking him, and that a man from Pittsburgh could never beat a man from Brooklyn anyway. He presents to the world his own custom made championship, first calling it the Brooklyn world belt, then the name it would be better known as, the FTW title. On this occasion, FTW did not mean ‘for the win’ as it might today. It stood for “fuck the world,” three words that Taz’ on screen persona embodied. In January ‘99 at Guilty as Charged, Taz would defeat Shane for the real ECW World title, and the FTW belt felt like a way of keeping that from happening until the time was right. Douglas would remain champion throughout the whole of ‘98, and would almost seem a bit lost without it.




One more thing of note that occurred on this night, was a pretty epic moment that I’m sure the management of the Elks Lodge weren’t thrilled by. That said, the first show there did have a New Jack balcony dive. The whole ‘98 version of the Dudley Boyz, as well as their manager Joel Gertner would come to the ring to what I believe would be called nuclear heat. The crowd viciously boo’s as the Dudley Boys spit venom right back, paying specific attention to one individual they picked out on the balcony. Perhaps not expecting anything to come of this, the Dudley clan attempted to goad the fan into climbing down the balcony, and getting in the ring. They even promised that they would make sure that he would not be kicked out or worse. These were the days when a fan climbed in the ring, they would get whatever the wrestler who happened to be in there felt they deserved. The tye-dyed trolls moved on with their promo, but after a few minutes, the fan would descend from the balcony, and make his way towards the guard rail. Thankfully, security would get to him before anything else could happen, and the Dudleys would continue on with their planned promo. This does show though, just how incensed the fans could get while being taunted by the Dudleys. As best I can tell from the newsletters at the time, nothing seemed to come of this, and the Elks clearly didn’t mind, or care, that a fan had dropped from the balcony to try and get in the ring.




In August, ECW would, through a situation out of their control, lose their television presence in New York City, Philadelphia and Atlanta, the first two being very important markets for the company. While they were able to get new airings in the latter two, New York proved to be much more difficult. ECW would end up going months without any television in New York. Despite this, ECW continued to run shows in NYC, and in September at the Madhouse, they would come up with a very expensive, and frankly insane sounding way of keeping fans invested. “On the 9/17 Queens show, as the crowd of about 800 left the building, Paul Heyman and Tommy Dreamer were at the exits giving everyone videotapes of the past three television shows since ECW has been off TV in the New York market and basically Heyman wanted the loyal New York fans to see the recent TV shows. The goodwill gesture cost in total about $4,100 between the cost of the tapes and the dubbing and transporting about 1,000 tapes to the Arena.”




As I’m sure you can probably imagine given the time and cost it took, ECW only did this once, leaving their New York fans without access to their television at their next show in November. “ECW didn’t pass out tapes of the TV show to all the fans at the Queens show as they had promised the previous show they’d do as long as they didn’t have New York TV, claiming a problem with the fire marshall, but did take everyone’s name and promised to mail them the last four weeks worth of television shows.”




Before we leave 1998, there was one more event at the Elks Lodge that received some attention from the newsletters, though it wasn't promoted by ECW. It is as best I can tell, the first non-ECW show to take place at the Elks Lodge while the promotion was running shows there. On October 10th, the Long Island Wrestling Federation would promote a card held in the memory of the Junkyard Dog, who had passed away in June ‘98. The show would include many ex-WWF talents, such as Tito Santana, Demolition Ax, again without Smash, Jimmy Snuka and more. What's strange though, is seeing these names alongside some of the future stars of the 2000’s indie scene, most notably Homicide and Low-Ki. More on them later. A couple of ECW names also worked the show, including Spanish Angel and Skull Von Krush, who would be part of the Baldies group later on. LIWF would run one more event at the Elks during ECW’s time there in early ‘99, but ECW soon wouldn’t be running there either.




1999




As we get to 1999, ECW would run four times at the Madhouse, but a big problem was emerging. If you looked purely at ticket sales, which are usually one of a wrestling promotions most important revenue streams, you’d be forgiven for thinking that everything was fine, but ECW’s money problems were still growing. Cheques were bouncing, talent were being owed more and more, and Paul Heyman was having to look for deals that might save the company. By this point ECW had sold out the Elks Lodge many times in a row, and continued to through the upcoming year, but if this wasn’t making enough money for the company, it raised the question of should they be running the smaller venues anymore?




On the weekend of ECW’s first Elks lodge show of the year, they sold out an eleven hundred capacity show in Freeport New York on the Friday, a thousand in the Madhouse on Saturday, and three thousand on Sunday in Poughkeepsie. The Observer would make an interesting comment about this. “There is some question as to whether or not the full houses in small venues can pay the enormous television bills the company has, since it buys time in most major markets it plays. The estimated $250,000 per year bill for MSG cable, for example, can hardly be made up running 1,000-seat buildings in the New York market.” Dave seems to be specifically talking about the Elks Lodge without ever naming it. “Heyman has steadfastly run shows that are admitted money losers because the television looks good, particularly from New York, and being able to pack houses rather than risk moving to larger buildings and potentially not selling out.”




As far as the content of the show, the fans were treated to some stellar wrestling and a surprising twist. Crossing the Line on February 12th would include one of the many singles matches between Yoshihiro Tajiri and Super Crazy, who had quick become intense rivals since Tajiri’s debut in December. The main event of the night saw another famous ECW rivalry revisited, as Rob Van Dam would defend the Television title against Jerry Lynn. The two would a month later meet again at Living Dangerously in what might be their most famous match, so to see it in a much more intimate setting must have felt special.




This night was also the setting for a match that never was, which turned into a major storyline. Originally, the Dudleys were slated to have a dream match of sorts with the Public Enemy, which would have been billed as ECW’s past greatest tag team against their present greatest. When asked about his opinion of the Public Enemy by the Torch, Paul Heyman responded “They should’ve showed up in Queens to do the favor for the Dudleys.” In place of the match that might have taken place, it looked like a different tag team from the early days of ECW were going to clash with the Dudleys, as Mustafa would return to the company to stand along side New Jack, who was already feuding with them. However, Mustafa would actually turn on his former partner, setting up a match between he and New Jack at Living Dangerously.




On April 24th the company would return to New York, but the most interesting thing about this show was what was going on backstage, as Paul Heyman would receive some unexpected visitors backstage, who were after money owed to them. “Tommy Rogers and Sid, who were both working the weekend in the area for Mike O’Brien’s North East Wrestling, showed up at the 4/24 Queens shows to get settled on previously bounced checks. Sid was owed $6,000 and Rogers a much lesser amount and both were paid off although there ended up being a scene between Rogers and Paul Heyman over it.” Sid would end up only making two more appearances for ECW before signing with WCW, but it’s doubtful that those would have happened had Paul not paid him on this night.




Despite all of the money problems, there were opportunities coming that Paul Heyman hoped would help turn things around. The biggest of these was the TNN deal, which after months of negotiations, Heyman would land in June. Paul would waste little time announcing the deal to the world, and he would do so in the middle of the ring, at the Madhouse on July 3rd. A week before this at the ECW arena, Paul would hold a meeting with the wrestlers, hoping to unify them ahead of the announcement, and attempting to lift their spirits. “He asked that they be a “team” and support the company because the next few months would be an exciting period of growth with everyone soon thereafter getting rewarded for their patience.” Paul was very much insistent that the good times were coming, telling the Torch in an interview in July that ECW was never going to go out of business no matter how bleak things had looked from the outside.




It seems though, that whether ECW planned on addressing the size of it’s venues or not, they might have had to leave the Elks Lodge not by choice. The first TNN taping, which would take place from the Madhouse on August 26th was set by the venue itself to be the final wrestling event to take place there. The show is also known under the name ‘Last Night at the Madhouse’ for this reason. It seems though, that for at least for a while this may not have been the case. “The Queens show was scheduled to be the final show in the Moose Lodge as it is being converted into a church. However, the building’s management (who are said to be usually stuffy and nonchalant) got caught up in the emotion of the evening and decided to book a final show at the building on Dec. 18. Heyman says the show will not be a TV taping because he wants it to be more of an intimate night for the Queens fans, whom he is said to consider among the best in wrestling.” This December show is never again mentioned in the Torch or Observer, and on the date that the event was pencilled in for ECW would actually run a show in Chattanooga, as part of a three show tour of Tennessee.




Still, at the time that this show was being booked, ECW thought it was the last night at the Madhouse, and so Paul booked a memorable show. August 26th 1999 was to be the last night in the company for Bubba Ray and D-Von Dudley, who won the tag team titles from Balls Mahoney and Spike Dudley, threatening to take them to WWF. Thankfully this wouldn't happen, as the Dudley’s would lose the titles later in the night to Tommy Dreamer, and a returning hero. Following a very public walk out from WCW, former ECW World champion Raven would make his surprise return much earlier than expected, given that he had only walked on a WCW Nitro taping on August 23rd, just days before this event. At some point in the night, the Torch says that Heyman came to the ring to address the fans about the TNN debut. “A few fans chanted “Raven” and Heyman told them, “You’ll get Raven in 91 days””. In a move that would shock the Madhouse fans, Raven would enter through the crowd, drop Bubba with a DDT, and pin him to win the tag team titles with Dreamer, his hated rival. Tommy would look at Raven like he had seen a ghost, and he would spend the next few weeks reckoning with the idea that his biggest rival was back.




The next few times ECW would run TV tapings in New York, it would be in much larger venues than the Elks lodge, in Buffalo and White Plains. It’s possible to say then that ECW had, at least for the time being, outgrown the small Queens venue. Despite this, ECW would eventually return to the Madhouse one final time, under very different circumstances.




2000




By November of 2000, ECW was in a much rougher shape. TNN was gone, and the company would be a few months from the end. ECW was a few weeks away from a new pay per view event they had added to their calendar, called Massacre on 34th Street. Because of several cancelled shows, there was worry that they might not have enough footage in the can to get them to the event. As a result, according to the Observer “there was work done to try and do a last-minute booking of the Elks Lodge in Queens, NY, where ECW used to tape hot TV’s, because it’s only an 800-seat arena that ECW can fill with a week of publicity, for sometime over Thanksgiving weekend to shoot some new angles for the PPV.” This event would end up not taking place, “because there wasn’t enough time to finalize the deal and get the publicity out on television. They still may add a date in that building before the end of the year with the idea of making it an extra special house show and charging a high ticket price for the event.” This one would end up happening, with some very special guests. Bubba Ray and D-Von Dudley would make one final appearance for ECW at the same venue that they left in.




In early December, the Observer would report on cancelled events in Texas. This meant that after the December 3rd pay per view, the next ECW event would be on the 15th in the Elks Lodge. The Madhouse show was “a high ticket price event in order to try and catch up on bills, which was originally 12/21 but moved up one week because ECW would have had nothing for TV on 12/22.” Unfortunately for ECW though, the show wouldn’t draw as much money as the company needed it to. “while it sold out the 800 seats, (the show) failed to overflow with standing room as it usually did in the past, with tickets jacked up to $40 and $60.”




But what happened on the card itself? “The show was built around the return of the Dudleys, who worked the main event teaming with Tommy Dreamer over Simon Diamond & Swinger & Anderson and were clearly the stars of the show by leaps and bounds over the regulars.” While this was sure to get a reaction from the fans at the Madhouse, not everyone was happy, as “many were upset regarding the Dudleys not selling anything for the ECW guys, in particular Buh Buh not putting over the C.W. Anderson left hand which they push on television.”




Leading up to the night, ECW had been promoting another surprise star, who would turn out to be Taz, who would help the tag team champions Danny Doring and Roadkill. This may sound like an odd pairing, but Doring and Roadkill were actually proteges of Taz, two of the few graduates of the House of Hardcore training school. This return by Taz seems to have been received much better. “Tazz tried to give them a rub afterwards and apparently did a great job with the interview, doing his old catch phrase with a twist, “Beat them if you can, survive if they let you.””




2001

With ECW not long for the world, the December 15th show marks a sort of end of an era. It doesn’t mean however that wrestling stopped at the Elks Lodge though, nor was it the end for ECW wrestlers appearing there. In February 2001, another promotion would swoop in to take their place. “Chris Candido, Kash, Tajiri, Baldies, Mahoney and Whipwreck as well as Electra and Missy Hyatt all worked the 1/26 show for Ultimate Championship Wrestling in Queens at the Elks Lodge, the site of numerous ECW TV tapings, drawing about 400 fans.” The Observer in December notes that this is a new promotion holding their first show, and not the same Ultimate Wrestling Superstars that I mentioned earlier.




As well as the former ECW talent they booked, they also included several talents who would become more prominent names in the 2000’s. The Amazing Red, Homicide, Low-Ki and the SAT who would all work for Ring of Honor when that got started, would mix with half of the ECW roster. The other notable thing about UCW is that their shows appear to be marathons. This card from June of 2001 has fifteen matches on it, including a one night tournament and a battle royal. In September, UCW would run a free show at the Elks Lodge, and apparently expected it to be rammed with people, this wouldn’t be the case though. “According to those there, because it was free, it would have been expected to be a packed house, but only drew about 400 people. Low Ki and Red apparently tore down the house with a **** calibre match.”




At first there was annoyingly little information about Ultimate Championship Wrestling out there, not even a logo, and no listed events beyond this free event in late 2001. I noticed though, that their shows would include title defenses for Impact Championship Wrestling, which would continue to run the Elks Lodge until 2015, eventually becoming ICW No Holds Barred, which is still running today.




Another notable company that would begin to run in the Elks was USA Pro Wrestling, which began in New Jersey in ‘96, and first ran the former Madhouse in 2000. Promoted until 2021 by former wrestler Frank Goodman, USA pro appears to bridge a gap between being one of those companies that I talked about earlier, main evented by 80’s WWF stars, to later booking ex-ECW guys as well as indie talent. According to this note from the Observer, they were still booking Snuka vs Bundy as late as 2000. Can you imagine?




In 2003, Frank Goodman’s USA Pro would actually have a hand in another company being able to run their first ever show in New York. That company is known as Ring of Honor. There have been a few cases over the years of promotions needing to co-promote with a company that already has a license to promote in New York. Perhaps most famously, when AAA planned to run Madison Square Garden they had to co-promoted with Impact, and New Japan did with Ring of Honor for their MSG show. In this case, ROH co-promoted using Frank Goodman’s license. It was first reported in November 2002 in the Observer that ROH “will debut in New York at the Elks Lodge in Queens on 2/8 in a joint promotion with Frank Goodman’s USA Pro Wrestling (which, since it’ll be their license, will be the promotion of record).”




Ring of Honor, with the help of USA Pro, would hold their one year anniversary event at the Elks Lodge, the only ROH show that would ever be held there. This could potentially be because a storyline riot that would get a bit out of control would happen half way through the show, and that not being a great look for a building predominantly used as a church by this point. Another potential reason for no return date is that after years of threatening “The Elks Lodge in Queens, which had been rumored for years, dating back to the ECW days, to be shutting down wrestling, is going to do so in September.” While a little later than planned, USA Pro Wrestling would host the apparent last show at the Elks Lodge, titled “End of an Era.” The fifteen match card included a mix of up and coming indie talent and grizzled ECW veterans. From Low-Ki versus Sonjay Dutt to Shane Douglas versus the Sandman and a marathon show in between. In the main event, Raven would defend the USA Pro heavyweight title against Al Snow in a match that would last forty-five minutes. Can you imagine anything more threatening sounding than an almost hour long Al Snow match on a fifteen bout card? Before you say a half hour video on this channel, ye probably.




Ending




This is the third video that I’ve made for this channel about a former ECW venue, and it’s the only one that is still to this day predominantly known as theirs, approaching twenty five years since the company closed its doors. Unlike the Hammerstein Ballroom and the 2300 arena which have hosted many promotions since, the Madhouse of Extreme has stayed at the indie level when it has hosted wrestling. This is in part due to the new ownership, but the size of the venue doesn’t help either. Or that fire escape.




Early on in my reading for this video, I found this quote from an Observer that stuck with me about the Elks Lodge. It perhaps explains why major promotions never seem to run there, not since ECW at least. “One of ECW’s problems is that Heyman has often presented the product in buildings for atmosphere, such as the ECW Arena, or the Elks Lodge in Queens, but that even with a full house, the show itself ends up being a money loser.”




For better or worse, and I think history will probably say for worse, Paul Heyman had an interesting philosophy when it came to how he chose his venues. “Heyman, whose background from the night club business before wrestling taught him it’s better for the illusion of the club to pack a small hall, than to draw twice as many people in a three times as large building, taking in more money, but having empty seats give the impression it’s not a hot product.” This is the mentality of someone who wants to deliver the perception of a really hot product. One that fans are desperate to get through the door for, but not necessarily one that will sell enough tickets to sustain itself. Herein lies the problem with ECW running the smaller venues. Had they lived into the 2000’s, who knows where they would have found, or what ways they would have found, to draw bigger crowds?






Sources:

Intro

Paul Heyman on the building in 2013 https://vip.pwtorch.com/2023/09/11/10-yrs-ago-wwe-live-event-results-9-8-2013-shield-vs-usos-orton-vs-daniel-bryan-plus-punk-brie-bella-dean-ambrose-rvd-natalya-sami-drew-more/

Aztec theater https://www.scoutingny.com/the-incredible-aztec-theater-hidden-in-queens/

Barbed Wire City, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQjvW_w8Q_k (Link to section used)

PWT Jan 18th 97 - Wrestling had already been happening there https://vip.pwtorch.com/2017/01/07/vip-1997-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-423-jan-18-1997-wwf-shotgun-saturday-night-syndicated-program-debuts-part-two-of-joey-styles-torch-talk-more/

WON July 20th 92 - Earliest mention in Observer https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-20-1992-observer-newsletter-vader-makes-title-history-title-belt/

New York Pro Wrestling Results https://www.nyprowrestling.com/results/




1997

PWT April 12th - Paul on first show https://vip.pwtorch.com/2017/04/02/vip-1997-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-435-apr-12-1997-ecws-ppv-debut-preview-paul-heyman-interview-wcw-spring-stampede-ppv-more/

PWT Jan 3 98 Tiger Mask vs Sasuke https://vip.pwtorch.com/2017/12/26/vip-1998-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-473-january-3-1998-in-depth-starrcade-report-including-sting-capturing-wcw-title-from-hogan-plus-ratings-roundtable-reviews-and-more/




1998

WON March 16th 98 Sold out https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/march-16-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wcw-turmoil-talentnew/

WON March 23rd attendance number, Al Snow notes https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/march-23-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wcw-turmoil-ufc-16-tons/

WON July 6th 98 July sell out https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-6-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-king-ring/

WON Aug 3rd 98 losing New York https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-3-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-more-leno-and-wcw-wwf/

WON Sept 28th 98 Tapes https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-28-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-raw-overtakes-nitro/

WON Oct 12th 98 New York market https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/october-12-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-monday-night-war-ratings/

WON Dec 28th 98 New faces https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-28-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-bischoff-gets-historic/

WON Oct 19th 98 Long Island Wrestling Federation JYD show https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/october-19-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-pride-4-results-brian/

JYD show card https://www.nyprowrestling.com/results/1990s/1998.html




1999

WON Feb 22nd 99 Crossing the Line, money problems https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-22-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-having-financial/

PWT July 3rd Talent meeting ahead of TNN https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/29/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-555-july-3-1999-keller-dissects-hogans-interview-on-larry-king-live-cover-story-details-wwf-embarrassing-wcw-in-its-home-market-cover-sidebar/

PWT July 17th heyman interview post TNN deal https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/13/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-557-july-17-1999-cover-story-on-jesse-venturas-controversial-decision-to-be-guest-celebrity-at-summerslam-paul-heyman-interview-in-depth-cove/

WON August 30th 1999 Raven https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-30-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-summerslam-review/

PWT Sept 4th Elks being the real first TNN taping, Raven return and Public Enemy comment https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/31/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-564-september-4-1999-cover-story-detailing-wwfs-help-getting-steroid-doctor-suspended-cover-sidebar-looks-at-venturas-problems-with-media-co/

PWT September 4th End for the building https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/31/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-564-september-4-1999-cover-story-detailing-wwfs-help-getting-steroid-doctor-suspended-cover-sidebar-looks-at-venturas-problems-with-media-co/




2000

WON Nov 20th 2000 Potentially used one last time in Nov 2000 https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-20-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-shinya-hashimoto-fired/

WON Nov 27th 2000 more on above

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-27-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-survivor-series-review/

WON Dec 4th 00 One last show in December - Dudleys https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-4-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-turmoil-wcw-mayhem/

WON Dec 25th 00 Show didn’t do well https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-25-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-blue-demon-passes-away/




2001

WON Feb 5th 01 NAPTE - UCW runs Elks

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-5-2001-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-signs-justin/

WON Dec 18th 00 - Another Ultimate in 2001 https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-18-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-armageddon-reviewed/

UCW Results https://www.nyprowrestling.com/results/2000s/2001.html

WON Sept 25th 01 Free show doesn’t do well https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-25-2001-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ufc-reenters-ppv/

WON May 8th 00 USA Pro Wrestling Frank Goodman https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/may-8-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-backlash-review-sakuraba/

WON Nov 25th 02 ROH First noted - Fank Goodmans USA-PW https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-25-2002-observer-newsletter-survivor-series-review-more-97565/

WON June 9th 03 Venue apparently closing again https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/june-9-2003-observer-newsletter-career-and-death-freddie-blassie-97627/

WON Nov 17th 03 Last show there advertised https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-17-2003-observer-newsletter-bob-sapp-vs-akebono-death-crash/




Ending

Venue Money loser https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/october-9-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wcw-sale-rumors-rock/

WON Feb 22nd 99 nightclub quote

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-22-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-having-financial/

The story of ECW on TNN is one that a lot of fans know the gist of. The two sides had a year long relationship which went downhill pretty quickly, and ended very bitterly with ECW not far from going out of business, and the channel ready to welcome WWE. Did you know however, that it didn’t exactly start in the best way either?


When I looked into the timeline starting from the beginnings of TNN expressing an interest in adding wrestling to their schedule, I found that the road towards episode one airing was a bit bumpier than you might have known. And so that's what we’re going to look at here.


In this video, we’ll look at the state of ECW in mid-1999. We’ll then look at some of the problems that ECW faced before they even went on the air. Then finally we’ll look at TNN episode one, to see what hit screens in the end.


ECW in 1999


While the official announcement of the TNN show would happen at the end of June, it’s important to understand the state of ECW at the time. In April the Wrestling Observer would claim that even two years before the end, cheques were bouncing and talent wasn't getting paid. “There have been several bounced checks again over the past two weeks starting a lot of rumors about the company being one step from the grave. Paul Heyman again met with the wrestlers on 4/17 and said that everything would be okay financially in another month. Since he’s said that before, the confidence in those statements is pretty low”. There were however deals on the table that looked like they could help ECW stay afloat. For example, Paul Heyman was attempting to strike a deal with Acclaim Entertainment to licence ECW video games. This deal was very important for the company, as Wade Killer notes in the Pro Wrestling Torch, as it could potentially make ECW “solvent and debt-free for the first time in well over a year.” The alternative for Paul was by far a less desirable option. “Without the deal, there are rumors of the WWF or WCW being interested in bailing out ECW in return for part or whole ownership.”


In June (WONJun7), Paul would eventually land the video game deal, and Hardcore Revolution, which played suspiciously like a previous Acclaim title, WWF Attitude, would be released in February 2000. This alone wasn't going to rid Heyman of his financial woes, but larger national exposure on television might. A week later Wade would add that “Acclaim will likely strike a video game deal with whoever ends up with The Nashville Network deal. If that is the case, ECW’s future strongly hinges on getting a clearance on TNN.” As Wade is alluding to here, TNN was looking to add wrestling to it’s schedule, and had a few options on the table.


While ECW was struggling to make deals to keep themselves going, the channel formerly known as the Nashville Network was looking to rebrand itself. In the April 19th Observer, before ECW was in talks with them, it was reported that there was “a lot of talk about TNN carrying pro wrestling starting in August on Friday nights in prime time, either in the current RollerJam time slot, or as part of a two-hour block.” While Dave Meltzer speculates that this could lead to a new promotion starting up, he says that “TNN had talked with both ECW and NWA about the slot. ECW had a meeting scheduled for early this week with TNN, so the fact there was a meeting says that they must still be in contention”. TNN were even looking at much smaller groups who weren’t yet known on a national level. Another candidate in the running was “Howard Lipkint’s group out of Las Vegas,” which could well have become the very short lived WXO, which would end up only running only one television taping before going out of business. It’s here in the timeline where we get to the first major problem that ECW faced on the way to landing the TNN deal, one of their biggest stars leaving on fiercely bad terms.


Hardcore Heaven 1999


On May 16th ‘99 ECW presented it’s Hardcore Heaven pay per view from Poughkeepsie New York. While the show is perhaps best remembered for a battle between Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn, who had stolen the show at the last pay per view too, what was going on behind the scenes was far more interesting. (WONMay24) Representatives from several television channels were backstage watching the show, including TNN, Showtime, and MTV, as ECW had been in talks with all of them. With all of these important people backstage, Paul Heyman needed to book a show putting ECW’s best foot forward, but it wouldn’t happen without drama.


Just one day before the pay per view, one of Paul’s top stars would appear on an indie show at the ECW Arena called ‘Breaking the Barrier,’ which I talked about in more detail in my video about the historic venue. At this event, Shane Douglas would cut a scathing promo against ECW in the ring, quitting the company in the process. Shane’s issues with Paul had been growing for a while. He reportedly didn’t attend the previous weekend's event in Philadelphia because he was told that he wasn’t welcome after previously being booked. Paul Heyman told the Torch, “I had a conversation with Shane Douglas at the beginning of last week at which point I told him that it’s better for the locker room and better for he and I not to be in the same locker room and that the time had come for us to go our separate ways.” Heyman then went even further, claiming that “Douglas threatened to “expose the real financial status of ECW” to TNN to try to kill the deal.” Of all the people who Paul Heyman has had a public falling out with over the years, Shane Douglas is one of the few that he doesn’t seem to have made up with, so there could have been some truth to this reporting.


Upon finding out about Shane quitting, Paul knew he had to do something to save face with the TV reps. He would call in a huge star who had worked sporadic dates for the company. Someone who he knew would look impressive to the network reps. Paul would, at 11:30 the night before the pay per view, call Sid Vicious, who luckily made it to the event in time. This ended up from a TV rep standpoint a genius move by Paul, as he was able to show “that Douglas’ loss on the show wouldn’t be missed and that he was replacing him with a bigger star that the fans would pop big for when he showed up, which is what happened.” However from a booking standpoint it would end up being bittersweet. Paul’s plan was for Sid to receive the biggest ovation from the crowd possible, hopefully impressing the reps. He did this though, by sacrificing two of his up and coming top heels, Justin Credible and Lance Storm.


I talked about this in more detail in my video about Sid in ECW, but in short, the segment would be just a bit of a mess. Justin, who had been supposed to face Shane Douglas, would be interrupted in the ring by Sid and his manager Judge Jeff Jones. It would take Justin’s cane, which seemingly had no effect, Lance Storm, Jayson Knight, and a run in by Sabu to finally beat down Sid, who would pop up from all of it like a movie monster, only to attack Jeff Jones afterwards. In itself, the segment makes the best of a bad situation brought about by Shane quitting, but Justin and Lance came out of it looking a bit ineffectual against Sid, who wasn’t going to be staying. Sid would only make one more appearance in ECW, teasing an ongoing story with Justin and Sabu, but this would never come to anything.


Justin in particular had been quite protected up to this point, and was a project of Paul’s. He had beaten many an ECW great, and was likely set to beat Douglas, but the booking on this night didn’t exactly make him look strong. It would take nearly a year after this to finally get him onto the main event level. Despite all of the chaos at Hardcore Heaven, Paul Heyman must have done something right. The June 7th Observer reports that ECW was basically all but confirmed officially to be coming to TNN later in the year. Dave does say though that “The contracts have yet to be signed and all the terms haven’t been exactly worked out.”


On June 30th, after nearly a month of questioning, the official announcement would be made. In the coverage we learn the reason for the 8pm timeslot. “ECW has been slotted in the early-evenings because it is considered the best bet to draw a strong lead-in audience for TNN’s RollerJam and Championship Rodeo and Motor Madness shows that follow.” When asked about this, Paul Heyman wasn’t perturbed in any way by the timeslot not exactly being what he was used to. “we bring to the table something that they need which is a strong lead-in for Roller Jam. We already have the core audience and hopefully we can expand that audience. But it’s a proven product on late-night television. That’s something that they need.”


“ECW didn’t exactly have a ton of leverage in negotiations since they are an unproven product on a national scale that has gone through a year of financial problems. The bounced checks to wrestlers, arenas, and suppliers became an embarrassment for the company.”


Paul Heyman, as you can imagine, phrases it differently, telling the Torch “I think it is an incredibly intelligent deal on behalf of a network that understands what their exposure is going to bring to this company. And they have every right to ask for that because they’re the ones that are going to put us on the map. It certainly gives us a chance to entice more people to buy our tapes or shirts or dolls or whatever else we’re selling, including our tickets and our pay-per-views.” Paul's mentality, and I suppose this had to be the way he looked at it, was that if TNN helped ECW grow, then TNN were going to take a cut from that. Therefore it’s in the network's best interest to work with him, and then all could reap the rewards. This line from Wade though, pulls back the curtain a bit on what TNN’s approach was, and how different it was to Paul’s. “TNN privately is touting the deal as a no-lose situation for them. They get a huge percentage of all ECW revenue above what current levels in every category – from PPV and arena shows to merchandising and websites. TNN also reserves the right to buy ten percent of ECW after one year.”


Paul Heyman would waste no time in telling his audience about the big news, and he would do it on the air. On July 3rd at the Elks Lodge in Queens, Paul Heyman would stand in the ring and tell the fans that on August 13th ECW would start on TNN. Remember this date because it’ll become more important later. Joey Styles would then confirm that this 13th date is a special episode, with the main series beginning on August 27th at 8pm.


Heat Wave 1999


Paul's announcement would air for television viewers on July 17th, one night before ECW’s next pay per view, and Heyman’s next big headache. Unlike the previous years Heat Wave, which is regarded among fans to be one of the best ECW events, the ‘99 version is largely remembered mainly for an unscripted part of the show, and it involved Bubba Ray Dudley.


There had been several nights where Bubba had stirred up the fans so much that they wanted to get in the ring and fight him. This one from Elks Lodge is my personal favourite, with a fan going over the balcony to try and get to Bubba. At Heat Wave, his promo was so antagonistic towards the fans, picking out individuals and being quite vulgar in his jokes, that there were claims that he nearly incited a riot in the building. According to the Torches' coverage of the event, Bubba it seems would catch a lot of the heat for this, essentially being punished for his verbiage. “Sources say Heyman was hoping Buh Buh would become a locker room leader heading into the TNN show. Instead, Buh Buh has earned himself a place in the dog house of Heyman and the wrestlers in general.“


But given that riling the crowd up was a normal part of the Dudley’s act, why did it get Bubba in so much hot water this time? What you might not have heard before, is that TNN reps were again in the building as they were at Hardcore Heaven, and they were none too impressed with Bubba’s promo, nor the overly violent match that followed, where Spike Dudley and Balls Mahoney would win back the tag team titles against Bubba Ray and D-Von. “This match and pre-match turned out to be controversial, as there were folks in the cable industry in particular at Viewers Choice and also at TNN who were upset about the pre-match mic work by Buh Buh, both the level of the swearing and inciting the crowd, feeling he was inciting a riot, and the match, in particular the close-ups of the blood and the flaming tables.” This wasn’t helped by the idea of some that Bubba knew exactly what he was doing. “Many believe Buh Buh knew his comments were crossing the line (especially the racial comment) but claim Buh Buh is starting to believe his own hype and is too concerned with his gimmick of being the “greatest tag team in history.”” That last part is pretty funny if you’ve heard Bubba continuing to make this claim in 2025.


As far as the violence of the match, the network reps’ reaction to this actually influenced the rest of the show. Later in the night Taz would defeat Yoshihiro Tajiri, retaining his ECW World title in a match with a quite unique finish. Taz would be awarded the win by submission, as he choked Tajiri with barbed wire, during which the camera angle shown was from the very top end of the building, meaning the TV viewers could barely tell what was going on. This was apparently done as a direct reaction to the TV reps being unhappy with the violence shown in the Dudleys match, something I’d always wondered about. It does make you wonder though, did TNN properly know what they were getting, and was there perhaps any buyers remorse, a month before the premiere air date?


As ECW got closer to the premier date, it seemed that they just couldn’t stay out of trouble. In fact, they would find impressive new ways to get in trouble. In the July 26th Observer, it’s noted that “Joel Gertner will work with Joey Styles as the announcing team for the TNN shows. It’s something of a debatable decision.” it would become even more of a debatable decision a few days later, after Joel would cross the line on that weeks Hardcore TV. But first, some context. On July 16th 1999, John F Kennedy Jr would pilot a plane that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean not far from Martha's Vineyard airport in Massachusetts. You may be wondering what this could possibly have to do with Extreme Championship Wrestling? On the July 24th ‘99 episode of Hardcore TV, Joel Gertner would go on a lengthy and ill advised rant about the recent death of JFK Jr. Joel’s rant was clearly meant to be about how much of the news coverage was spent on the story and seemingly not much else, but it being Joel Gertner, it was laced with distasteful jokes, most notably ones comparing Kennedy’s anatomy with a part of the plane. As you could probably imagine, this did not sit well with the media.


TV Guide published a critical article, and the MSG network went as far as to not even air the segment, instead replacing it with commercials. Paul Heyman on the other hand was quoted to be happy with the attention it got them, and he “assumes TNN is happy with the media attention heading into the show’s debut.” Explaining the piece, Heyman told the Torch ““We were looking for controversy, more or less, without using violence or swearing,” he said. He added that the company was trying to “demonstrate our attention to pop culture,” and said he helped Gertner write the piece which he claims was inspired by a Dennis Leary comedy routine.” Despite Paul being happy with the attention the segment received, this and the incident at Heat Wave weren’t a good look approaching the new show on TNN, which TV Guide described in their article as “TV’s traditionally wholesome Nashville Network.” You might think that Joel’s position on the TNN show might be reconsidered, but Paul would double down and keep him beside Joey when the series would air. When Dave Meltzer questioned the use of Joel as a broadcast team with Joey, his reasoning was that “Gertner is great at delivering pre-planned lines for short interviews, but there’s a big difference between that and thinking on your feet and not running out of things to say for a 60 minute television show.” Ironically, Joel’s pre planned routines are what got him in more hot water than anything, but Paul was ready to welcome any publicity as good publicity at the time.


The TV Tapings


On August 13th, TNN was supposed to air a ‘History of ECW’ special, catching new fans up to what the company is all about, while the prospective August 20th one was going to introduce the current roster and storylines. “TNN will not be airing the history of ECW show which was initially talked about for the two Fridays before it’s regular Friday night debut on Aug. 27. The network was open to the idea of airing the show but Paul Heyman says he turned them down because they ran out of time to properly promote it.” As I noted earlier the show was first mentioned on television on July 3rd, yet somehow there was not enough time to promote it. I could more believe Paul’s next reason, “All of the newspaper and magazine articles about ECW on TNN have listed Aug. 27 as the debut date. Heyman didn’t want to end up debuting on the network with a low rating and will instead wait for the heavily-hyped Aug. 27 series debut.” There is an alternative, maybe more accurate depending on who you believe suggestion posed in the Observer, which claims that the shows “didn’t materialize due to no show being provided by deadline.” This is not the best start, but it’s not going to get any better.


On the August 14th episode of Hardcore TV, Joey Styles makes some pretty interesting comments about the company’s new business partner, again before the first episode has even aired, and right after they’ve already missed a deadline. Part way through the episode, Joey directly addresses the New York fans watching on the MSG Network, relating to the TNN taping set to take place in Queens on August 26th. He stresses that this is not just a national TV taping, but now with the new coverage in Canada this is an international one. The concerning comments would come next. “If I may I’m gonna shoot for you fans. TNN didn’t want us to tape their TV show at the Elks Lodge, the madhouse of extreme. They said it’s not a TV worthy building. We want a five thousand seat building where we can hang a lighting grid and have a big ramp, no. ECW fought to have a TNN taping at the madhouse of extreme, the Elks Lodge.” He ends by saying “We will see you from there whether they like it or not, and they will like it because the ratings will prove it.” Admittedly, it’s fair to point out that this was a localised ad that was just going out to their New York fans, and it was said with the rebellious tone and attitude that ECW was known for, but it’s still a pretty daft move to say to your most loyal fans “that new network we just joined, they don’t want you.” Especially again, before episode one has even aired.


On the same day, August 14th, ECW held what was supposed to be tapings for the launch episode. The card had been stacked, with a dream partners tag team match pitting Rob Van Dam and Justin Credible against Jerry Lynn and Sabu, I promise you I said that right because those pairings make no sense. A big tag team championship change had been planned too. Actually, a few big changes had been planned. “There was consideration given to booking two singles title changes at the initial TNN tapings. Jerry Lynn to defeat Rob Van Dam in the first hour to capture the TV Title, then Van Dam beating Taz to capture the ECW Hvt. Title during the second hour. Taz signing a contract last week probably led to the change in plans.” Taz had quite openly been in talks with WWE at the time, and while it wouldn’t be long until he did leave, he had told Paul he would be staying, leading to his plans changing.


While some of the taping would be used as episodes of Hardcore TV, like Spike and Balls defeating the Dudleys for the tag team titles, much of the night's taping was deemed “unairable,” and wasn’t seen on TNN. “Sources say Heyman was visibly disappointed after the show. He didn’t consider the event a disaster and cited the strong crowd reaction as a positive, but said the show just didn’t come off as well as he expected. After viewing the footage, Heyman is said to have lightened up and admitted to friends that he may have set his expectations too high.“ For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that “although Heyman didn’t like the Toledo ECW/TNN tapings, TNN officials who were on hand were apparently thrilled with the initial taping. After the main event, the representatives reportedly hugged several members of the ECW crew and voiced their approval. They also took the time to meet some of the wrestlers before and after the show.” It is never made clear what exactly Heyman wasn’t happy about, not specifically at least, with the Torch saying that he was “disappointed in the way some of the booking plans came across.” If I were being a conspiracy theorist, given the comments Joey Styles made earlier I wouldn’t be shocked if Paul just wanted the first TNN taped matches to come from the Elks Lodge taping on August 26th, but we’ll never really know.


In one last note before the first episode aired, Wade Keller claimed that “Sources within the cable industry are saying TNN expects a 3.0 rating from ECW from the start. TNN launched a cross-channel advertising campaign last Friday to hype the series debut”. To put this number into a bit of perspective, the previous episode of Raw had drawn a 6.6 rating, and Nitro the same night a 3.3. It would be a tough ask for ECW to match Nitro on it’s very first week, especially since a few weeks earlier, Wade had printed that “TNN is a low rated cable network, but they do draw peak ratings around 2.0 for big NASCAR broadcasts.”


Episode One


This finally brings us to episode one of ECW on TNN, which would air on August 27th 99. For all of the pitfalls and unfortunate events that had taken place on the way to this night, ECW would take full advantage of it’s first hour, doing their very best to set themselves apart from the other promotions. The first thing we see is a cold open of the Dudleys putting Balls Mahoney through a table that is on fire. Over the top of it, Joey Styles confidently tells us “this isn't the WWF. This isn’t WCW. This is ECW on TNN!”


On the debut broadcast, ECW would air essentially what the preview specials would have been. The only unique content being Joey Styles’ links between segments. They started by showing the entirety of the Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn TV title match from the recent Hardcore Heaven pay per view. While this match was undoubtedly an ECW classic, and helpful because it filled almost half of the hour, it wasn’t exactly the original content that TNN had wanted, but at least it was a very popular match, and one that was going to draw in any new fan. There are far worse ways to give a first impression.


Next, ECW would make an absolutely genius move. Instead of just showing their former world champions or current stars which they would do later, Joey introduced a list of big names who used to work for ECW, making the point that all of them failed to capture the ECW world title despite being massively successful elsewhere. Names like Konnan, Cactus jack, and even Steve Austin. If a brand new fan were tuning in and saw that Steve Austin, who was the WWF champion at the time, had tried and failed to win the ECW belt, it might well leave them asking how good must the ECW locker room be?


They would follow this up with another very clever move, by introducing some former ECW World champions, two of the most notable being Raven and Sandman. The reason this is so clever is that both had recently been working for WCW, and were each on their way back, set to appear on TNN very soon. Raven had, in fact, returned to ECW just twenty four hours earlier at the Queens TV taping, interfering in the main event for the tag team titles, preventing the Dudley Boyz from taking the belts to WWE with them, by winning them with his fierce rival Tommy Dreamer. Sandman wouldn’t be back in ECW for a few more weeks, making his triumphant surprise return at the ECW arena on October 23rd ‘99. It was then, a very smart move for ECW to highlight these two, given that they would be a major part of the show very soon.


Up next we get our second match of the night, a World title bout that originally aired on the June 26th ‘99 Hardcore TV, where Taz would face the rookie monster of Steve Corino. That rookie monster was Rhino. Taz would beat Rhino handily in just a couple of minutes, and knowing the absolute killer Rhino would become in ECW, it’s crazy to see him as essentially enhancement talent in this match with Taz, his first ever on ECW television.


One more quite interesting thing that ECW aired was a very brief match, just seconds long in fact, but it really got across the rowdy nature of the Queens New York fans. Spike Dudley versus Big Sal, who they name on the lower third as “600lb Sal Graziano versus Little Spike the Giant Killer”. As it turns out, this match was actually taped a full year earlier. It aired originally on the August 29th 1998 episode of Hardcore TV, and was probably chosen because it came from the Elks Lodge, where the following week's TNN episode had been taped from. Spike would hit a low blow and an Acid Drop for the win in about thirty seconds. As I mentioned in my quick recap of Sal’s career in a recent video, Sal lost to Spike many times, often to get the crowd cheering, but also to get across Spike’s giant killer persona.


The rest of the hour would be spent briefly introducing each member of the ECW roster, with a particular focus on Lance Storm and Justin Credible who are among the few who get promo time. We see cleverly edited clips of them beating down well known names like the Dudleys and Shane Douglas. I say cleverly, because they at one point show Justin and Lance beating up Sid Vicious from Hardcore Heaven, not including the part where Sid rises like a movie monster and destroys them.


Following a Kid Rock music video showing off the rest of the roster, the show ends with a promo from the World champion, Taz. We see footage of him choking out who else but Shane Douglas, because Paul has never shied away from being spiteful from time to time. Taz promises that he will continue to tap out all challengers, and he would for a little bit longer.


After all the talk before the show aired of a 3.0 rating, how would episode one actually do? “The first broadcast of ECW drew a 0.9 rating, the highest rated show on TNN that night.” Most importantly, they would do much better than Rollerjam, which only earned a 0.6. If you’ve never watched a video on this channel before, I promise I don’t usually talk about ratings, but here it’s significant. The next week Wade would explain a bit more about the high estimate. “The second ECW program on TNN grew to 1.0 rating, which is in line with what TNN executives hoped and expected the show would draw in its first few weeks. TNN officials guaranteed advertisers a 2.0 average rating for the first season, but it is standard practice in the advertising industry to oversell ratings rather than undersell them.” Over the next few months, the shows ratings would show slow growth just as Paul had predicted, regularly passing 1.0, at least until late in the run, when things were really going South between the two sides. The highest rating that the show would ever draw on a few different occasions was a 1.3.


Conclusion


I’ve been quite critical of ECW through this video, but I will say one thing. While watching the first episode of ECW on TNN, I really forgot all about the many hurdles they tripped over to get there.


It’s been said many times that Paul Heyman was an excellent wrestling booker, and that his greatest skill was being able to accentuate the positives of a talent, and hide away their weaknesses. You can do this in a lot of areas in life, like PR and promotion, but unfortunately you can’t just hide away the negatives in business. Why the ECW and TNN relationship failed is a conversation that has to look more at the run of the show itself, but I’ve tried to show that as rough as the road to the debut was, the first episode was booked in a manner that Paul always tried to, by hiding ECW’s negatives, and leaving you wanting more.




Sources:

WON Apr 26th 99 Bounced cheques https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/april-26-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-davy-boy-smith-recovering/

PWT May 1st Acclaim deal https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/04/27/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-546-may-1-1999-cover-story-on-death-of-rick-rude-coverage-of-wwe-breakdown-ppv-headlined-with-steve-austin-vs-rock-and-triple-h-vs-x-pac-more/

WON May 3rd Acclaim deal https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/may-3-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-death-rick-rude-wwf-backlash/

WON Jun 7th Acclaim landed, WXO https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/june-7-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-fallout-death-owen-hart/

PWT May 8th Acclaim deal link to TNN https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/05/04/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-547-may-8-1999-cover-story-looking-at-latest-signs-of-wcws-follies-wwf-newswire-detailing-growing-backstage-tension-between-austin-and-the-roc/

WON April 19th TNN rebrand https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/april-19-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-davey-boy-smith/



WON May 24th TNN, Showtime and MTV reps at Hardcore Heaven https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/may-24-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-hardcore-heavenwwf-no/

PWT May 22nd Shane Douglas Heyman heat https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/05/17/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-549-may-22-1999-cover-story-titled-ecw-features-good-matches-puzzling-booking-coverage-of-ecw-hardcore-heaven-ppv-newswire-on-goldbergs/


JUNE


PWT June 12th Mixed replorting, Kulas https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/08/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-552-june-12-1999-cover-story-on-hart-family-and-wwf-clashing-over-usage-of-funeral-footage-of-owen-hart-second-cover-story-on-sables-110-mill/

PWY Jul 3rd RVD 1 https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/29/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-555-july-3-1999-keller-dissects-hogans-interview-on-larry-king-live-cover-story-details-wwf-embarrassing-wcw-in-its-home-market-cover-sidebar/

WON June 28th RVD 2 https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/june-28-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-reaction-wwf-contracted/

PWT July 10th Official announcement https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/06/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-556-july-10-1999-details-on-jerichos-decision-to-jump-from-wcw-to-wwf-cover-story-featuring-extensive-exclusive-quotes-from-heyman-on-ecw-clea/


JULY


HW99

PWT Jul 31st Heat on Bubba https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/27/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-559-july-31-1999-cover-story-on-vince-talking-about-owen-tragedy-on-tsn-kellers-end-notes-examining-veracity-of-mcmahons-comments-lette/

WON July 26th 1999 - Bubba upsets TNN reps at Heat Wave, Gertner https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-26-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-governor-jesse-ventura/

PWT July 31st JFK jr https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/27/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-559-july-31-1999-cover-story-on-vince-talking-about-owen-tragedy-on-tsn-kellers-end-notes-examining-veracity-of-mcmahons-comments-lette/


AUGUST

PWT August 14 Intro special not aired https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/10/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-561-august-14-1999-cover-story-on-wwfs-financial-status-being-revealed-in-ipo-long-wwf-newswire-including-quote-from-vince-saying-f-them/

WON Aug 30th Intro not aired

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-30-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-summerslam-review/

PWT Aug 21st Problems with first taping https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/17/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-562-august-21-1999-cover-story-on-wwf-banking-on-ventura-drawing-new-fans-wwf-newswire-featuring-austin-upsetting-wwf-wrestlers-with-his-influen/

PWT June 12th Nascar quote https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/08/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-552-june-12-1999-cover-story-on-hart-family-and-wwf-clashing-over-usage-of-funeral-footage-of-owen-hart-second-cover-story-on-sables-110-mill/

PWT Sept 4th Ep 1 recap and notes https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/31/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-564-september-4-1999-cover-story-detailing-wwfs-help-getting-steroid-doctor-suspended-cover-sidebar-looks-at-venturas-problems-with-media-co/

ECW on TNN ratings https://www.angelfire.com/pa2/RAWisWAR/ECWTNNRatings.html

The WWE explosives match that never was, and other attempts in 2000

Of all of the crazy match types that exist in wrestling, there aren’t many that WWE hasn’t attempted their own version of. While they have played with fire a few times, they’ve never done anything like an explosions match, the dream of many a hardcore promotion, which I've been reading a lot about lately.


I did find however, that WWE did have plans for such a match in 2000, appropriately including Kane, and the man he’d been embroiled in a feud with for months, X Pac. In this video, we’ll look at the plans to run the match, why it fell through, and the other promotions who were also in the race to be the first to pull it off.


The history of this type of match is massive and there are lots of stories to draw from, so I thought I’d look at all of the instances that I could find from 2000, and there are chapters below if you’d rather skip to the WWE one.


WWF


Having had a steel cage match at Armageddon, and a No Holds Barred match at No Way Out, it seemed that Kane and X Pac were likely to meet again at Wrestlemania 2000. Perhaps the most bizarre of Wrestlemania’s, with a crowd at least. I say that because it only features one singles match, and that was a catfight. The rest of the show was multi-man chaos up and down the card, from the triangle ladder match, to the Hardcore invitational, to the fatal four way for the WWF title. It seems that there could have also been a few explosions that night also. In the March 13th Wrestling Observer Newsletter, Dave Meltzer writes that “There was talk about doing an explosive ring match with Kane vs. X-Pac at Wrestlemania.”


If you were going to do this match with anyone on the roster in 2000, Kane and X Pac would have been the two to go with. Their feud had become bitterly personal, with the two starting as unlikely friends, even becoming tag team champions in ‘99. The two would help each other in visible ways to the audience, with Kane beginning to speak, no longer needing a voice box, and X-Pac proving that he could hold his own inside the ring, even against much larger opponents. By the end of the year though, the two would become enemies, with X Pac leaving Kane behind to regain D-Generation X, stealing Tori, Kane’s first love away with him. Kane seemingly rebounded by bringing Paul Bearer back, presumably to be his wingman or something.


The first talk of an exploding ring match came in the March 4th edition of the PW Torch, where Wade Keller wrote that Kane and X Pac were set to meet in an “FMW style exploding landmine cage match.” Interestingly a month out before the show, a lot of the rest of the card he published wouldn’t happen either, with the IC title three match being the only one that stuck. We like to think that wrestling bookers have it all figured out, at least more that we would have, but often this is not the case.


If you were following along with the newsletters at the time, You could be forgiven for thinking that nobody really knew what the company was aiming for, as the name of the match changes with each reporting of it. So far we’ve already had “exploding landmine cage”, and “explosive ring”, and in the March 11th Torch, Wade calls it the “Exploding cage” match. Also in this reporting, Wade notes that apparently Kane and X Pac were all for the match but Vince McMahon didn’t seem to be. A week later though, we would learn that the match had gotten as far as the explosions being given a trial run, and this is where the plan would be abandoned. “The X-Pac vs. Kane explosion match has been vetoed because Vince McMahon didn't like the special effects in the trial run. Some in the WWF were against the concept anyway. Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & Road Dogg is the back-up plan.”


In the March 27th Observer, less than a week away from Wrestlemania, Dave would explain two more very valid reasons why the planned match fell apart. Firstly, “they didn’t feel they had enough time to familiarize themselves with that kind of a match, since it had never been done in the WWF, and that they didn’t want to not get it right at Wrestlemania because when the explosives go wrong, it kills the match no matter what the wrestlers do because the whole match is determined by the impressiveness of the explosion”. Quite rightly, they didn’t want to risk trying to pull this match off for the first time on one of their major shows, perhaps knowing that if it were to fail, it would be all anyone was talking about for a long time to come. ECW may have got it right by having their match on a house show, and not let’s say, in the main event of one of their biggest shows of the year. Nope, not naming anyone. I promise that's the only AEW reference in this video. Perhaps also WWE might well have learned from the ‘Kennel From Hell’ match they attempted just a few months earlier, and the company was once bitten, twice shy.


The second reason Dave adds is that “this is not the time politically to do something like this and have it screw up and someone actually get hurt.” there are a few things that Dave could be referencing here, from the passing of Owen Hart being less than a year ago, to the ongoing issues at the time with the Parent’s Television Council, and their challenging of the content of the attitude era shows. Either of these might not be what he was getting at, but if someone were to get hurt in such a stunt, it would only give the company’s enemies more to come back at them with.


One final potential reason for the match being nixed actually comes from the Torch a few weeks later and is far less dramatic. Wade notes that “Kane will be out about eight weeks due to a hand injury which he suffered a couple of weeks ago. He was hurt before WrestleMania.” Though this wasn’t reported before Mania, it could well have also played a part in the one on one match not taking place, with the tag team match being easier for him to work. To add to this and perhaps make the fans happier, Kane at least got to destroy Pete Rose one last time. The fact that this didn’t become a thing for many more Wrestlemania’s still to this day makes me sad.


So thats the match that WWE was planning, but did you know that around the same time, a few other promotions were competing to be the first to bring a match using explosions to a US audience. One of the first of these was a newer company, CZW.


CZW


On February 14th the Observer says there are plans supposedly for “a 6/25 PPV show” that was set to be headlined by a rematch between Atsushi Onita and Terry Funk under the same rules as the original. Dave would go on to note that this event already felt suspicious, because it fell on the same date as the 2000 King of the Ring pay per view, “so there is no way they are getting any serious clearance or buys for a live show”. The other barrier seemed to be that Terry Funk worked for WCW at the time, and even though he claimed that his contract wasn’t exclusive, I doubt WCW would have wanted their talent going off and working such a match. Dave makes one more interesting note while making the claim that indie shows generally did not do well on pay per view, citing as an example the most recent attempt which had been Heroes of Wrestling, which was reported to have been purchased in just twenty nine thousand homes.


On the subject of CZW, Dave notes that they had recently been featured on ABC Nightline, and were also planning for the card to include “another match with snakes, alligators and a piranha in various corners of the ring.” Barely a year old at the time and likely wanting to make a name for themselves, it seems that CZW had some big ambitions, and an even bigger imagination. If I can just take you off course for a minute, I managed to find an article that was published on IGN, who naturally gets a twelve out of ten for their wrestling coverage, promising a rather bizarre card for what was meant to be CZW’s first ever pay per view. Firstly, the main event was promoted as a trios exploding barbed wire death match, with Funk, Zandig and a mystery partner teaming up against Onita, Araya and Yaguchi. Also on the card was a “glass cage” match, though it isn’t clear what that means. Get it, cos it’s glass, never mind. Finally, a ‘freaks of nature match’, which included “four aquariums, one in each corner, will be filled with who knows what?” In the infamous CZW Follies list, it mentions that they got as far as someone actually trying to source such ‘freaks of nature’ The article also promises three live bands, and despite being in 2000 and clearly a massive fantasy, none of them are Limp Bizkit, WWE’s favourite band.


A week later it would be reported that Terry Funk had verbally agreed to the match, and Onita announced that the match “would be at a 30,000-seat stadium in New Jersey in June.” You might well be aware of this already, but a CZW event in a thirty thousand seat stadium a little over a year into it’s existence wouldn’t happen. However, CZW did hold an event on this day titled “They Said it Couldn’t be Done.” On that card, which took place at the Champs Soccer Arena in Sewell New Jersey, likely not the same place that Onita was referring to, Zangig and Lobo would in fact have a no ropes, barbed wire explosion match. Before the match takes place though, Zandig gives an impassioned and swear-laden speech, beginning by cursing out Onita. He then goes on a tirade about other promoters such as the NWA’s Dennis Corraluzzo, but this seems to be about a larger issue than this match that was affecting the promotion. Zandig and Lobo’s match wouldn’t exactly reach the legendary heights of Funk and Onita, but the explosives did in fact work, which is more than can be said for ECW’s version, which could well have been a rush job to beat CZW to the punch, but it ended up never airing anywhere.


ECW


On March 3rd 2000 in Asbury Park New Jersey, Balls Mahoney would face Vic Grimes of the Baldies in exploding barbed wire boards in play. This match would never air on television, but we can see it thanks to Fan Cam footage which would have been distributed by RF Video. Given that the match was booked in a pretty packed looking indoor venue, there wasn’t much hope for being able to do a lot explosion wise, and not much is what ECW delivered. The match begins like any other, with Balls and Vic trading punches, while outside the ring, were placed barbed wire boards that were rigged to blow.


Once Vic and Balls had both used their trademark weapons, and both were bleeding, Balls has referee Jim Molinaux assist him in getting one of the boards in the ring, as Vic perches uncomfortably on the top rope. Balls tried to superplex him, but Vic punches back, and shoves him into the board. Two blasts of pyro come from either side of the board, admittingly sounding impressive, and the referee sells like he’s been shot. Vic tries to pin Balls who kicks out, so he brings in a second board. Balls manages to counter and powerbombs Vic into the board, but the explosion does not go off, and the crowd boos loudly. Balls pins Vic for the victory, but there is a sullen feeling as the crowd look on and Vic is helped away.


So those are the three main companies that were racing to put on an explosion match in early 2000, but there are many more stories about the match being attempted. In the back end of the year, California based XPW would be the next to try, even bringing Atsushi Onita in. They would attempt to put on Onita vs Sabu in an exploding barbed wire death match. A press conference and follow up angles were filmed, but ultimately this match wouldn’t take place. I partly made this video to sort of test the water a bit, to see if videos about this kind of hardcore wrestling were interesting. If they are, please let me know in the comments. Thank you for watching, and if you enjoyed this video please like, comment and subscribe.




Sources:


WON March 13 00 plans revealed https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/march-13-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-beyond-mat-controversy-new/

CZW

WON Feb 14th 2000 Show announced https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-14-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-vince-mcmahon-announces/

WON Feb 21st Funk agrees https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-21-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-1999-attendence-numbers/

IGN previews CZW show https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/06/20/terry-funk-to-headline-ppv-barbed-wire-match-for-combat-zone-wrestling

PWT March 4th 00 Landmines https://members.pwtorch.com/torchbackissues00/torch592/T592WWFNews.html

PWT March 11th exploding cage https://members.pwtorch.com/torchbackissues00/torch593/T593WWFNews.html

PWT March 19th trial run https://members.pwtorch.com/torchbackissues00/torch594/T594WWFNews.html

WON March 27 00 match nixed https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/march-27-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-more-wwf-leaving-usa/PWT April 8th 00 Hand injury https://members.pwtorch.com/torchbackissues00/torch597/T597WWFNews.html