The US Tour of Kenta Kobashi - Everywhere He Nearly Went

                                 

Just over twenty years ago in Manhattan, New York, one of indie wrestling’s legit dream matches took place. Noah’s legend Kenta Kobashi, known for some of the most stunning strong style matches ever, would face Samoa Joe, young in his career, but racking up big matches at the time. There are already some great videos out there about Joe vs Kobashi, and to be clear, this video isn’t about that match. It’s about the matches and appearances that could have happened, that might have been on the cards, but in the end weren’t.


In this video, we’ll look at the US excursion of Kenta Kobashi. We’ll look at how the tour came about, including all of the promotions he did, and nearly did work for. Then we’ll look at how he ended up at Ring of Honor, up to the announcement of his match with Samoa Joe.


You’ll hear about what was reported at the time by both the Torch and the Observer, but you’ll also hear comments from Gabe Sapolsky from an interview recorded years later.


Kenta Kobashi was thirty eight years old and seventeen years into his career in 2005. He was very much an active full timer though, competing in over a hundred matches in Noah alone that year. On July 18th 2005, he had a match that had a lot of people talking at Noah’s Destiny event, against Kensuke Sasaki. The match was so well regarded, it caused CM Punk of all people to rave about it on his Live Journal page, at the same time chastising everyone who didn’t see it as a classic. I promise that's a thing that happened, and I wish Punk kept up his blogging these days.


Despite Kobashi’s many accomplishments, one thing he had not done so far in his career was wrestle a match outside Japan. He had wrestled for an American company though, sort of. On April 13th 1990, Kenta wrestled at the Tokyo Dome, on a show co-promoted by All Japan, New Japan and WWF. He and Masanobu Fushi lost a tag team match early on the card to Tito Santana and Jimmy Snuka, on a night where Hulk Hogan versus Stan Hansen would be the main event. Though Kobashi had wrestled plenty of Americans, from the Rock and Roll Express, to Cactus Jack to Vader in his Noah days, he was yet to go there himself. That would be set to change in the Summer of 2005.


The US Tour


The first mention of Kobashi possibly going to the US is reported in the July 4th Wrestling Observer. It’s also claimed that he wouldn't be coming alone. “Kobashi, KENTA (that’s the other Kenta) and Marufuji are coming to the U.S. from 9/21 to 9/24 for a Harley Race scouting camp at Race’s school in Eldon, MO. They will probably wrestle on a WLW show, and there is talk of them doing a Pro Wrestling Iron show that week in Northern California as a TV taping.” In 1999, Harley Race founded World League Wrestling, an NWA territory and wrestling school in Missouri which is still running today even after Harley’s passing, currently run by his son Leland. He would hold an annual training camp that would take place in September. Each year, different representatives from Pro Wrestling Noah would be sent for this camp, and in 2005 it was the turn of Kobashi, KENTA and Marafuji. It seems that Harley had managed to keep good relationships with virtually everyone in the business, as a 2008 article from Slam Wrestling details the camp, promising that “representatives from the WWE and NOAH” would be present. “The cream of the crop will be invited to participate in a wrestling card at the end of the camp, which will be filmed by both NOAH and the WWE. “So it’s the opportunity to perhaps be seen in front of worldwide audience,” Race noted — a pretty rare opportunity indeed.” If you thought as I did upon hearing that WWE being involved sounded strange, here is an article from wwe.com that I found advertising Harley’s training camp, even mentioning Kenta Kobashi as scheduled to attend. While there is no date or author listed on the page, the dates in the article match when Kobashi was set to be there in 2005.


WWE’s involvement wouldn't end there though. After Kobashi’s visit to the US, reports would come out of Japan about a meeting between Kobashi and a WWE office employee who was at the Harley Race camp. That WWE employee was at the time their EVP of talent relations, John Laurinitis. While on the surface a meeting like that might sound strange, the two did have history together. Ahead of the meeting Dave Meltzer would point out “It could be just for Japanese p.r. Kobashi & Johnny Ace were a regular tag team nearly 15 years ago with All Japan, feuding with Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas.” He later notes that the two likely won’t have seen each other in a few years, as Ace stopped going over to Japan, possibly when he joined WWE. While the two were together, Johnny Ace would tell Japanese press “that they’d love to have Kobashi face their top stars like Angle, HHH and Undertaker,” though Dave reasoned, or possibly hoped, “Most likely nothing will transpire, because NOAH needs Kobashi and he’s a lifer with the company.” In another interesting thought, Ace also told the press “he’d like to set up a meeting with Vince McMahon and Mitsuharu Misawa.” Despite Ace putting this out into the universe, I doubt we were going to see Misawa come in at Wrestlemania 22 to try and stop the streak, but it probably would have been better than the Mark Henry match.


While he was there, Kenta Kobashi would have a match for World League Wrestling, making this, not his ROH matches that took place later in the week, his actual US debut. He would face Wade Chism, a staple of WLW shows, and Harley’s champion at the time. Wade was a trainee of Harley Race, and seemed to make WLW his main promotion, though he did go over and wrestle a tour with Noah and also had a WWE match on Velocity. In a 2011 interview with Missouri Wrestling Revival, Wade claimed that Harley said he had big plans for him, which seemed to be accurate. Wade would win several tag team titles most notably with another WLW trainee, Trevor Murdoch, and was also a five time Heavyweight champion for the promotion. While the fans in Eldon Missouri were unlikely to get a five star classic that night, the Observers report said that “Fans were giving Kobashi a standing o just for the chops. Chism didn’t do much, but came off good just for taking it.” Also on the card, KENTA would compete in a tag team match, and earlier in the evening, a young Kenny Omega would wrestle, just a few months before briefly appearing in WWE developmental promotion Deep South wrestling.


On this night, standing in the ring, Harley would take the opportunity to really show Kobashi the utmost respect. “Race, who was nicknamed Mr. Pro Wrestling in Japan, told Japanese reporters that he’s giving his nickname to Kobashi because he deserves it.” This wasn’t all though, as after Kobashi’s match, Harley would tell the crowd about the Mr. Pro Wrestling name, and then “presented Kobashi with one of his old NWA world title belts and declared him the greatest wrestler in the world.” From the reports of fans who were there, Kenta wore the belt in the ring, then politely took it off and handed it back to Harley Race.


So that’s the reason why Kobashi was heading to the US to begin with, but let’s take a closer look at the other promotions that were in the running to have Kenta appear for them. Pro Wrestling Iron was a school and promotion founded in 2002 in Haywood California, by two wrestlers very familiar with Pro Wrestling Noah, Michael Modest and Donovan Morgan, and a third owner Frank Murdoch. Morgan and Modest had begun wrestling as a tag team in Noah in 2001. They and Murdoch started their own company after leaving local rival APW on bad terms. PWI, not that one, had a strong Japanese influence because of the promoters and their ties to Noah. They would feature Noah talent such as Bison Smith, who was their champion for close to seven hundred days, and were even able to promote a handful of Mitsuharu Misawa’s few US matches. Misawa had previously wrestled a few US matches in 1986 when he was portraying the second version of Tiger Mask, so you could say that his 2002 match for Pro Wrestling Iron was his US debut under his own name. Despite a booking with Kobashi on the cards in July, Pro Wrestling Iron would close its doors in September, before Kobashi’s tour would happen. Each of the three owners would have their own reasons for this. “Modest bought a home in upstate California which is hours away from Hayward. Morgan, who said he’s gotten burned out on wrestling, recently got married and is moving to Florida. Murdoch is getting out of wrestling.”


Another promotion that was talked about early on was one you might not expect. “They are also said to have interest in working a TNA PPV, although at press time no talks have happened with either side”. On the surface, a Pro Wrestling Noah talent shouldn’t have been able to turn up in TNA, because they at the time had a strong link with New Japan, one that would only get stronger in the coming years. TNA would from time to time bring in big names from New Japan for appearances on their pay per views. In October, they would welcome Jushin Liger for a match with Samoa Joe at Bound For Glory, and they would bring in future Ace, Hiroshi Tanahashi in January for a match with AJ Styles. Starting in 2006, New Japan would be represented in TNA’s World X Cup tournament, with the team of Jushin Liger, Black Tiger IV, Minorou Tanaka and Hirooki Goto being sent that year.


A couple of weeks later in the July 18th Observer, Dave Meltzer provides more detail on the idea of Kobashi appearing for TNA, and the potential challenges. “NOAH officials have said that TNA can use Kobashi as long as it’s in between tours. The hold-up there is political, because TNA is aligning itself with New Japan, and that alliance may prevent the booking.” Only this year in August 2025, Jeff Jarrett addressed these reports on his My World podcast. When Conrad reads the Observer to him, Jeff never actually names Noah or directly addresses the chance to bring Kobashi in, but says that he wanted TNA to have one promotion they were working with in Mexico and one in Japan, implying that they were happy enough to just work with New Japan. *clip*


Dave also noted in the Observer that it seemed at the time like the political issues could have been avoided however, and that would have been through the olive branch of professional wrestling, Harley Race, who was said to be on good terms with both Noah and TNA, having had a history with both. As well as Harley’s links with Noah and WWE through his training camps, his good relationship with TNA may well have come through them both being NWA affiliated at the time. On June 19th 2002, Harley would appear on TNA’s first ever event, in the very first segment, as part of a parade of NWA legends that would be brought to the ring. In fact, Harley is one of the very first faces seen on that broadcast, and is given the task of making the NWA World title feel important for it was put on the line in the main event. Unlike TNA and Pro Wrestling Iron, Kenta Kobashi would actually make it to Harley’s training camp, and I’ll cover that when I get to it in the timeline. Before we do though, there is one question left to answer, how did Ring of Honor come to be involved?


According to ROH’s booker at the time Gabe Sapolsky, he made a phone call, apparently at this very desk, to Harley Race upon hearing that Kobashi would be in the country. *clip 1* Gabe says that Harley was initially surprised about the request, not expecting anyone to want to book him, perhaps not knowing how aware American fans were of Kobashi’s work. *clip 2* A few weeks later after the announcement of Kobashi going to ROH had been made, the Observer mentions that there were also “attempts to get him booked on 10/7 and 10/8 for FIP in Florida”, with Full Impact pro being ROH’s sister promotion of sorts. These bookings are never mentioned in any reporting again, and they might have fallen through due to scheduling. On the date of one of the FIP shows, Kobashi wrestled for Noah in Korakuen Hall. Another thing that Gabe mentioned is that booking Kobashi quote, “wasn’t cheap”, so I imagine that extending his US trip by a few weeks would have been very expensive for FIP. *clip* If you’re curious, Full Impact Pro did have a guest of honour that weekend, a very different one, as Sean Waltman would wrestle a main event match against Jimmy Rave, which I bet had a ton less chops than Kobashi vs Rave would have had.


Timeline


July 8th - The Announcement

Now that I’ve covered all of the promotions that were potentially involved, let’s look at the timeline leading up to Kenta Kobashi’s Ring Of Honor matches. On July 8th ROH would present Sign of Dishonor from Lake Grove New York, not exactly close to where Kobashi’s match would take place, which might be important in a bit. It was also the company's first ever event in the Long Island area. This show would actually take place one after Death Before Dishonor 3, where CM Punk would surprisingly win the ROH title, when it was known that he was WWE bound. The name of the show comes from the opening segment, where Punk would come to the ring uncharacteristically wearing a suit, and would sign his WWE contract on the Ring of Honor World Championship belt. It was later on this night where the official announcement was made that Kenta Kobashi would be coming to ROH. Unfortunately for the company though, according to coverage in both the Torch and the Observer, This wouldn't necessarily get the reaction that Gabe hoped for.


“The announcement didn’t get a huge pop from the fans in attendance, but his appearance is likely to draw a new group of veteran fans who maybe otherwise wouldn’t attend a live ROH event or purchase an ROH tape. It’s a marketing strategy ROH often uses where they bring in a known draw among a core group of fans, hoping to hook them on the rest of the product in the process.” Gabe had actually used this strategy with the very show the announcement was being made on, as Long Island local Mick Foley would appear, getting involved in CM Punk’s storyline. You could conceivably guess that there may have been more casual fans than normal in, especially for the promotions first time in the area, supported by the following show on the night after. “The reaction was huge the next night in Manhattan for the same announcement. Right now Kobashi is only booked on 10/1, but they are working on a second date for him.”


In the Observer Dave Meltzer would write that the entire show, not just the Kobashi reveal would suffer from a lower than expected crowd reaction. “The Lake Grove show was said to be a disappointment as far as crowd heat, but the crowd of 750 was really strong and it was attributed to doing a lot of angle stuff for casual fans who didn’t know the storylines and weren’t internet fans, which explains the totally different Kobashi reactions.”


July 23rd The Homecoming (Philadelphia announced)

The next time there would be any new developments on Kobashi would be a couple of weeks later at their next show in Philadelphia. On this night it would be announced that the second date that ROH were trying to add had been finalized, and so he would also be wrestling on October 2nd. This announcement would lead to some questionable booking, and some even more questionable reasoning from Gabe that were printed in the August 1st Observer.


From the National Guard Armory in Philadelphia, the company would present The Homecoming, where in the main event for the ROH World title, CM Punk would go to a sixty minute draw with Christopher Daniels, and we all know how much wrestling fans love time limit draws. Besides this, many fans were left unhappy with the sheer number of heel wins on the night. Gabe, it seems, felt he could get away with this just the once for a very special reason, Kenta Kobashi was now booked for the next show in Philadelphia. “Gabe Sapolsky felt they needed the screwjobs to get some heels over and felt Philadelphia was an okay place to do it, because Kenta Kobashi is on the next show, so he figured everyone would come back.” While it’s generally not considered good booking practice to annoy your fans knowing they will come back anyway, at least he did this just for the one show, and not let's say for about ten years.


As we got into August, Gabe was openly considering potential opponents for Kobashi. While Samoa Joe was the choice of many, Gabe also seemed to be considering Low Ki for the second match, but this wasn’t going to come without some difficulties. There were some merits to picking Low Ki, “there would be no issues as to finish, since both work for NOAH and Low Ki isn’t going to refuse a job for Kobashi.” While the two had met in three separate tag team matches that same year, a singles match between the two would have been more difficult to book, “because of the size difference making it hard to work a match, in the sense they can work together, but in NOAH, Kobashi is a legend and Low Ki is just a junior heavyweight undercard guy, so how much can he give him? In a tag, they can work it better, with the idea of a heavyweight and a junior heavyweight on each team.”


Possibly less so today than back then, given how many wrestlers we see move up into the heavyweight ranks, there was a perception between the two divisions that a heavyweight would fair better against a junior, therefore it might make the match less appealing or competitive. Because of this and other issues around the idea of Kobashi losing, Dave calls a tag match with Joe possibly involved “an easier political deal.” Gabe also explains that having Kobashi work two singles matches with high expectations on them would also have been a mistake. Ultimately, the idea of a Kenta vs Low-Ki singles match would be nixed, and a tag team match was considered the better option. *clip*


From the time of the initial announcement, there was already a lot of talk about who Kobashi would wrestle when he arrived in New York. Even at this point, “There is a push for Kobashi’s opponent to be Samoa Joe.” More opponents were discussed, but Joe was the one person that everyone seemed to come back to. Not a lot would come out officially though, and Gabe said years later that this was because the deal came extremely close to falling through several times. *clip*


Match announced

On August 29th 2005, Kenta Kobashi’s matches for Ring of Honor would finally be announced. On October 1st in New York he would face Samoa Joe, and on the next night in Philadelphia, he would team up with Homicide against Samoa Joe and Low-Ki. We’ll get back to the tag match in a minute because there’s a lot going on there, but the singles match with Joe was considered something of a dream match.


By mid 2005, Samoa Joe was six years into his career and twenty six years old. Despite this he was already something of a legend to ROH fans, having already held the Ring of Honor championship for nineteen months, a record unbroken to this day. Much like Kenta Kobashi, he too was racking up classic matches, only his list was far shorter so far.


While already respected by ROH fans, by mid-2005 he was also just starting to make a name for himself in TNA. On June 19th at Slammiversary, Joe made a very impressive debut, beginning a seventeen month undefeated streak that would eventually end when Kurt Angle arrived in the promotion. At the same time, much like Kobashi, Joe had been racking up highly regarded matches, even some that are still talked about today. On September 11th 2005, he would be one third of a famous triple threat match at Unbreakable against AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels. For eighteen years, this would be the only five star match that TNA ever promoted, until Bound for Glory in 2023.


Despite the eleven year experience difference, Joe and Kobashi were both collecting five star match ratings. I promise that star ratings don't normally get a lot of attention on this channel, but just bear with me for a minute. Between the years 2003 to 2006, Dave Meltzer awarded five five star ratings, and every one of those matches included either Joe or Kobashi. By the time of their match in October 2005, Kobashi had previously earned seventeen five stars, while Samoa Joe had just two. Very soon they would both have one more.


Ending


Odds are that if you’re watching this channel you know all about the classic match that would take place in the Grand Ballroom of the New Yorker Hotel. You’ve likely even seen it for yourself, from Kobashi breaking his usually stoic demeanour at the sound of the fans cheering loudly for him, to Joe’s chest ending up looking like something out of a horror film. What if Kobashi had done more in the US though? What if he had appeared for TNA, if he looked like a fish out of water at ROH, imagine what he would have looked like in the Impact Zone competing in the X-Division? What if he’d gone on a tour of the indies, facing spirit squad members and other freshly ex-WWE talents of the time. While it’s an interesting thing to guess about, it’s likely for the best that the ROH matches stand out, that the US matches Kobashi had remain few and special. Still, I wouldn't have minded seeing a really weird match somewhere though.





Sources:

WON July 4th Coming over for Harley Race/TNA https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-4-2005-observer-newsletter-wwe-completes-draft-lottery-brock/

WON Sep 5th 05 Iron closes https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-5-2005-observer-newsletter-pride-final-conflict-recap-chris/

WWE article about Harley’s camp https://www.wwe.com/inside/news/archive/race1

Harley and noah https://www.google.com/amp/s/slamwrestling.net/index.php/2008/08/22/race-noah-camp-a-unique-opportunity/amp/

WON July 18th Booking first announced - Harley Race, TNA and FIP https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-18-2005-wrestling-observer-newsletter-death-shinya-hashimoto-wwe/


Timeline

PW Torch July 23rd 2005 - Official announcement https://www.pwtorch.com/artman2/members/uploads/2/871TorchNewsletterPDF.pdf

WON Aug 1st Gabe not concerned with upsetting fans as they will come back for Kobashi next time https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-1-2005-obsever-newsletter-muhammad-hassan-character-banned-upn/

WON Aug 8th Gabe not announcing opponents for a while - Low Ki https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-8-2005-observer-newsletter-bret-hart-meet-wwe-over-dvd-business/

WON Aug 29 Match announced - Low Ki https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-29-2005-observer-newsletter-summerslam-recap-fedor-vs-mirko-cro/

FFD Sep 5th Match Announced - tag confusing https://members.f4wonline.com/newsletter-search?post_date=08012005+09012005

WON Sep 21 Advertised for Japanese TV https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-21-2005-observer-newsletter-spike-wwe-counterprogram-one/

Wade Chism interview https://missouriwrestlingrevival.com/2011/05/29/10-quick-hits-from-former-wlw-champion-wild-wade-chism/

WON Sep 26 Johnny Ace meeting Kobashi https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-26-2005-observer-newsletter-wwe-unforgiven-stacked-raw/

The History of Wrestling at the Elks Lodge, Queens NY

 

This might be the most ‘old man’ thing I’ve said on this channel, but I really appreciate an interesting looking venue. ECW ran quite a few of these, making a lot of their shows look unique and interesting. Promotions today hold events in all manner of places, from First Wrestling having their annual event in the Mall of America, to GCW’s Ukrainian Culture Center. These venues help to set promotions apart, and create an interesting atmosphere. Undoubtedly the one of the most interesting that I’ve ever seen was an Aztec inspired theatre in of all places, Queens New York. It’s still there to this day, though rarely used for wrestling.




In this video, we’ll look at the history of the Elks Lodge in Queens. We’ll start with before ECW, then we’ll look at the venue itself, some highlights of the ECW years, and it’s life post 2000.




Before arriving in the Elks Lodge, ECW’s previous New York venue was the Lost Battalion Hall, which is about a mile down the road. According to reports, the capacity seems to have been anywhere up to twelve hundred for the early shows there in 1995. That’s more than the Elks Lodge held, which appears to be around nine hundred. Every source gives a different number, and we’ll get to the reason for that in a little while. ECW moving from the Lost Battalion Hall to the Elks Lodge could well have come down to money. Presumably the Elks was cheaper if it held less fans. It could have also been because Paul Heyman seemed to really like the place, christening it the “Madhouse of Extreme”. When ECW was about to begin their ill fated run on TNN, Paul seemed to want to make sure against the network’s wishes, that the Madhouse would be the site of the first set of tapings for the new show. On September 8th 2013, at a WWE live event at the Barclays center in Brooklyn, Paul Heyman, standing next to Curtis Axel, would dismiss the three year old arena, which reportedly cost a billion dollars to build. He would tell the live crowd that it was “a dump compared to an Elks Lodge in Queens,” nearly thirteen years after he would have last set foot there.




One more idea, and this is just me speculating, is that it could also have come down to the building being under the New York City department of Parks and Rec, which I bet isn't as fun as it looks on TV. While ECW always had an edge to it, I doubt a government building and flaming tables would have gone down too well.




Building




Before we get to the Elks Lodge’s history with wrestling, a little background on the building itself. To use it’s proper name, Elks Lodge number 878 had long since stopped being a member-only establishment by the time ECW arrived. The main part of the building was put up for sale by the Elks in 1995, and would eventually be used as a Church. More on that later as it almost stopped shows taking place there several times. The most distinctive part of the venue is the amazing Aztec inspired carvings that surround the stage, and wrap around the balcony. If only Lucha Underground could have been filmed there before the once colourful theater was painted a much more dull colour. According to an article published in 2011 for Scouting New York .com, this was done by the current owners to make the imagery a little less intimidating. They used a different word.




In the 2013 documentary Barbed Wire City, ECW fan and attendee of the Elks Lodge Tony Lewis provided a tour of the venue outside and in, with some rather unique insights. He starts by showing us a fire escape, and tells us that the majority of the ring had to be carried two floors up the outside of the building, as this is where the lower level of the theater was. When he shows us the inside, he points out a window that the ring parts would have to be pushed through. If you, like I have, have ever watched a show from the Elks Lodge and wondered how they fit the reported attendance figures of up to a thousand fans into the small looking venue, the simplest answer is sometimes the best. Tony tells us that a plaque used to be up on the wall telling that the max capacity for the theater was six hundred and fifty three, and ECW would break this regularly with complete disregard. I’ll not tell you everything that Tony shares, and I’ll also include a link to the full segment in the description because it’s worth a watch. One final thing I will add is about a local legend that the Elks Lodge could call its own. Their version of the Straw hat guy. In fact, take it away Tony. *clip*




By the time ECW started putting on shows there, wrestling had already been promoted in the Elks Lodge before. The Pro Wrestling Torch lists an event from December 1996 for a promotion called Ultimate Championship Wrestling, a few months before ECW first ran there. The most notable names that were on this card were ECW talent Tommy Cairo, and ex-WWF stars Jim Neidhart, and in the main event Chris Chavis without the Tatanka gimmick, who beat King Kong Bundy by count out. Not a five count out I assume. Going even further back, in the Wrestling Observer there's evidence of a promotion called Universal Wrestling Superstars running there in ‘92. This card advertised Jimmy Snuka against Demolition Ax, just Ax mind, and SD Jones, whose career was winding down at this point. UWS ran the New York and New Jersey area starting in the late 80’s. According to a site that specialises in documenting Wrestling from New York, their last event in Queens was the card the Observer referenced in ‘92, but the promotion would keep going elsewhere until 1997, and right to the end they would continue to feature local talent on the undercard and former WWF stars on top. Their last main event would be Jimmy Snuka vs Typhoon.




1997




So now we get to ECW’s time in the Elks Lodge. Overall there are nineteen events, some TV tapings and others house shows that took place there. This isn’t going to be a comprehensive deep dive because we’d be here for hours. I will stop off at everything of note that happened in relation to the venue. On April 5th 1997, ECW ran their first event at the Madhouse. The first thing to note about this event is that it took place just eight days before Barely Legal, the company’s first pay per view and a huge milestone for the company. Despite not being an official TV taping and only being filmed by the fan cam, footage would air on the last episode of Hardcore TV before the pay per view, making this the first time the Elks Lodge appeared on televised wrestling show.




They would show part of a match between Rob Van Dam and Pitbull #2, where Van Dam hit a dive and unintentionally clocked Pitbull One, who medics rushed to in case he had reinjured his neck. Shane Douglas would attack him, which was part of the final build towards him versus Pitbull Two at Barely Legal.




Also on the episode, ECW would air a three team tag title match featuring the Gangstas, and two teams who would meet again on the pay per view, the Dudley Boyz and the Eliminators. In this match New Jack would perform a balcony dive, on the very first show in the building mind. These two segments would be the only parts of the show that would ever air on Hardcore TV.

After the first show at the Madhouse, Paul Heyman would gush about the night in an interview with the Torch “In my opinion we had our best spot show, if not our best house show, ever in Queens on Saturday night. The audience was so into the show. It was one of our best shows.” Ye alright Paul, you’re sounding a bit like another promoter.




While the fans at the Elks Lodge were getting to see title matches and TV episodes being taped at future shows, it would be a bit longer before they would actually see a championship change hands. On October 16th, which would again be a TV taping, Bam Bam Bigelow would defeat Shane Douglas for the ECW World title. In all of the events that ECW would have at the Elks, this would be the one and only World title change, though Shane would win his title back a month later at the November to Remember pay per view. Hardcore TV would show future world title changes, but this would be the last one to take place specifically to air on the show, with many after taking place on pay per view, and a couple happening on TNN. You’d have to look to the WWE ECW days to find the next time the ECW World title changed hands with so few viewers watching, mainly because half the crowd had their backs turned.




The final noteworthy event from 1997 came on December 26th, which could have become an annual tradition for ECW, as they held an event there on the same night in ‘98 too. This show starts off unlike regular ECW shows, in that it featured a match between two New Japan wrestlers. The Great Sasuke, who had wrestled for ECW earlier in the year including at Barely Legal, would face Tiger Mask IV, who along with the next night in New Jersey was making his only two appearances for the company. The two get off to a slow start and the crowd begins to boo, even calling out “bullshit,” and some quite offensive against the Japanese chants as the two exchange holds on the mat. While the Torch says nothing about this match, Wade Keller notes that when the two had a rematch on the following night, “The crowd chanted “boring” and “this match sucks” early on.” The only match of the night that would be taped for television would air on January 5th, and it would be an eight man tag team match that played on the ECW vs WWF feud that had been taking place for months. The ECW team of Taz, Sandman, Tommy Dreamer and Al Snow would defeat the WWF team of Doug Furnas, Phil Lafon, Rob Van Dam and Sabu. I promise it makes more sense in the context of the feud why Sabu was on the WWF team, and I am oversimplifying it a bit. Al Snow, who was actually a WWF signed wrestler who had been sent to ECW and developed his new character there, would get the win by roll up on Doug Furnas, and by Summer would be back on Raw, bringing Head with him. The multi person tag match where the good guys triumph would become something of a tradition, as the next year New Jack, Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten would best the Dudley Boyz to send the crowd home happy.




1998




After a few months away, ECW would return to the Madhouse on March 13th, with an event that the Observer noted had been “sold out several days ahead of time.” Dave makes note there that the capacity is 800, but in the following week’s issue lists a thousand as the attendance. Either Paul is inflating the numbers, or the fire code took a pounding on this night. While the March event was another house show, ECW’s next show at the Elks Lodge is one of the more important ones, as a few memorable moments took place. It is also known for having one of the most distinctive names of any ECW show. On May 14th ‘98, the promotion presented ‘It Ain’t Seinfeld,’ named as such because on the same night, the final episode of Seinfeld was airing. This is completely irrelevant, but as a kid growing up in the UK, we didn’t have Seinfeld, Jerry or his Sitcom, and so for years I had no fucking idea what that name even meant. I guess you could say, Hey whats the deal? Sorry.




This show is notable for more than just it’s name though, as Taz came to the ring with a bag in his hand. He would explain that he felt that the World champion Shane Douglas had been ducking him, and that a man from Pittsburgh could never beat a man from Brooklyn anyway. He presents to the world his own custom made championship, first calling it the Brooklyn world belt, then the name it would be better known as, the FTW title. On this occasion, FTW did not mean ‘for the win’ as it might today. It stood for “fuck the world,” three words that Taz’ on screen persona embodied. In January ‘99 at Guilty as Charged, Taz would defeat Shane for the real ECW World title, and the FTW belt felt like a way of keeping that from happening until the time was right. Douglas would remain champion throughout the whole of ‘98, and would almost seem a bit lost without it.




One more thing of note that occurred on this night, was a pretty epic moment that I’m sure the management of the Elks Lodge weren’t thrilled by. That said, the first show there did have a New Jack balcony dive. The whole ‘98 version of the Dudley Boyz, as well as their manager Joel Gertner would come to the ring to what I believe would be called nuclear heat. The crowd viciously boo’s as the Dudley Boys spit venom right back, paying specific attention to one individual they picked out on the balcony. Perhaps not expecting anything to come of this, the Dudley clan attempted to goad the fan into climbing down the balcony, and getting in the ring. They even promised that they would make sure that he would not be kicked out or worse. These were the days when a fan climbed in the ring, they would get whatever the wrestler who happened to be in there felt they deserved. The tye-dyed trolls moved on with their promo, but after a few minutes, the fan would descend from the balcony, and make his way towards the guard rail. Thankfully, security would get to him before anything else could happen, and the Dudleys would continue on with their planned promo. This does show though, just how incensed the fans could get while being taunted by the Dudleys. As best I can tell from the newsletters at the time, nothing seemed to come of this, and the Elks clearly didn’t mind, or care, that a fan had dropped from the balcony to try and get in the ring.




In August, ECW would, through a situation out of their control, lose their television presence in New York City, Philadelphia and Atlanta, the first two being very important markets for the company. While they were able to get new airings in the latter two, New York proved to be much more difficult. ECW would end up going months without any television in New York. Despite this, ECW continued to run shows in NYC, and in September at the Madhouse, they would come up with a very expensive, and frankly insane sounding way of keeping fans invested. “On the 9/17 Queens show, as the crowd of about 800 left the building, Paul Heyman and Tommy Dreamer were at the exits giving everyone videotapes of the past three television shows since ECW has been off TV in the New York market and basically Heyman wanted the loyal New York fans to see the recent TV shows. The goodwill gesture cost in total about $4,100 between the cost of the tapes and the dubbing and transporting about 1,000 tapes to the Arena.”




As I’m sure you can probably imagine given the time and cost it took, ECW only did this once, leaving their New York fans without access to their television at their next show in November. “ECW didn’t pass out tapes of the TV show to all the fans at the Queens show as they had promised the previous show they’d do as long as they didn’t have New York TV, claiming a problem with the fire marshall, but did take everyone’s name and promised to mail them the last four weeks worth of television shows.”




Before we leave 1998, there was one more event at the Elks Lodge that received some attention from the newsletters, though it wasn't promoted by ECW. It is as best I can tell, the first non-ECW show to take place at the Elks Lodge while the promotion was running shows there. On October 10th, the Long Island Wrestling Federation would promote a card held in the memory of the Junkyard Dog, who had passed away in June ‘98. The show would include many ex-WWF talents, such as Tito Santana, Demolition Ax, again without Smash, Jimmy Snuka and more. What's strange though, is seeing these names alongside some of the future stars of the 2000’s indie scene, most notably Homicide and Low-Ki. More on them later. A couple of ECW names also worked the show, including Spanish Angel and Skull Von Krush, who would be part of the Baldies group later on. LIWF would run one more event at the Elks during ECW’s time there in early ‘99, but ECW soon wouldn’t be running there either.




1999




As we get to 1999, ECW would run four times at the Madhouse, but a big problem was emerging. If you looked purely at ticket sales, which are usually one of a wrestling promotions most important revenue streams, you’d be forgiven for thinking that everything was fine, but ECW’s money problems were still growing. Cheques were bouncing, talent were being owed more and more, and Paul Heyman was having to look for deals that might save the company. By this point ECW had sold out the Elks Lodge many times in a row, and continued to through the upcoming year, but if this wasn’t making enough money for the company, it raised the question of should they be running the smaller venues anymore?




On the weekend of ECW’s first Elks lodge show of the year, they sold out an eleven hundred capacity show in Freeport New York on the Friday, a thousand in the Madhouse on Saturday, and three thousand on Sunday in Poughkeepsie. The Observer would make an interesting comment about this. “There is some question as to whether or not the full houses in small venues can pay the enormous television bills the company has, since it buys time in most major markets it plays. The estimated $250,000 per year bill for MSG cable, for example, can hardly be made up running 1,000-seat buildings in the New York market.” Dave seems to be specifically talking about the Elks Lodge without ever naming it. “Heyman has steadfastly run shows that are admitted money losers because the television looks good, particularly from New York, and being able to pack houses rather than risk moving to larger buildings and potentially not selling out.”




As far as the content of the show, the fans were treated to some stellar wrestling and a surprising twist. Crossing the Line on February 12th would include one of the many singles matches between Yoshihiro Tajiri and Super Crazy, who had quick become intense rivals since Tajiri’s debut in December. The main event of the night saw another famous ECW rivalry revisited, as Rob Van Dam would defend the Television title against Jerry Lynn. The two would a month later meet again at Living Dangerously in what might be their most famous match, so to see it in a much more intimate setting must have felt special.




This night was also the setting for a match that never was, which turned into a major storyline. Originally, the Dudleys were slated to have a dream match of sorts with the Public Enemy, which would have been billed as ECW’s past greatest tag team against their present greatest. When asked about his opinion of the Public Enemy by the Torch, Paul Heyman responded “They should’ve showed up in Queens to do the favor for the Dudleys.” In place of the match that might have taken place, it looked like a different tag team from the early days of ECW were going to clash with the Dudleys, as Mustafa would return to the company to stand along side New Jack, who was already feuding with them. However, Mustafa would actually turn on his former partner, setting up a match between he and New Jack at Living Dangerously.




On April 24th the company would return to New York, but the most interesting thing about this show was what was going on backstage, as Paul Heyman would receive some unexpected visitors backstage, who were after money owed to them. “Tommy Rogers and Sid, who were both working the weekend in the area for Mike O’Brien’s North East Wrestling, showed up at the 4/24 Queens shows to get settled on previously bounced checks. Sid was owed $6,000 and Rogers a much lesser amount and both were paid off although there ended up being a scene between Rogers and Paul Heyman over it.” Sid would end up only making two more appearances for ECW before signing with WCW, but it’s doubtful that those would have happened had Paul not paid him on this night.




Despite all of the money problems, there were opportunities coming that Paul Heyman hoped would help turn things around. The biggest of these was the TNN deal, which after months of negotiations, Heyman would land in June. Paul would waste little time announcing the deal to the world, and he would do so in the middle of the ring, at the Madhouse on July 3rd. A week before this at the ECW arena, Paul would hold a meeting with the wrestlers, hoping to unify them ahead of the announcement, and attempting to lift their spirits. “He asked that they be a “team” and support the company because the next few months would be an exciting period of growth with everyone soon thereafter getting rewarded for their patience.” Paul was very much insistent that the good times were coming, telling the Torch in an interview in July that ECW was never going to go out of business no matter how bleak things had looked from the outside.




It seems though, that whether ECW planned on addressing the size of it’s venues or not, they might have had to leave the Elks Lodge not by choice. The first TNN taping, which would take place from the Madhouse on August 26th was set by the venue itself to be the final wrestling event to take place there. The show is also known under the name ‘Last Night at the Madhouse’ for this reason. It seems though, that for at least for a while this may not have been the case. “The Queens show was scheduled to be the final show in the Moose Lodge as it is being converted into a church. However, the building’s management (who are said to be usually stuffy and nonchalant) got caught up in the emotion of the evening and decided to book a final show at the building on Dec. 18. Heyman says the show will not be a TV taping because he wants it to be more of an intimate night for the Queens fans, whom he is said to consider among the best in wrestling.” This December show is never again mentioned in the Torch or Observer, and on the date that the event was pencilled in for ECW would actually run a show in Chattanooga, as part of a three show tour of Tennessee.




Still, at the time that this show was being booked, ECW thought it was the last night at the Madhouse, and so Paul booked a memorable show. August 26th 1999 was to be the last night in the company for Bubba Ray and D-Von Dudley, who won the tag team titles from Balls Mahoney and Spike Dudley, threatening to take them to WWF. Thankfully this wouldn't happen, as the Dudley’s would lose the titles later in the night to Tommy Dreamer, and a returning hero. Following a very public walk out from WCW, former ECW World champion Raven would make his surprise return much earlier than expected, given that he had only walked on a WCW Nitro taping on August 23rd, just days before this event. At some point in the night, the Torch says that Heyman came to the ring to address the fans about the TNN debut. “A few fans chanted “Raven” and Heyman told them, “You’ll get Raven in 91 days””. In a move that would shock the Madhouse fans, Raven would enter through the crowd, drop Bubba with a DDT, and pin him to win the tag team titles with Dreamer, his hated rival. Tommy would look at Raven like he had seen a ghost, and he would spend the next few weeks reckoning with the idea that his biggest rival was back.




The next few times ECW would run TV tapings in New York, it would be in much larger venues than the Elks lodge, in Buffalo and White Plains. It’s possible to say then that ECW had, at least for the time being, outgrown the small Queens venue. Despite this, ECW would eventually return to the Madhouse one final time, under very different circumstances.




2000




By November of 2000, ECW was in a much rougher shape. TNN was gone, and the company would be a few months from the end. ECW was a few weeks away from a new pay per view event they had added to their calendar, called Massacre on 34th Street. Because of several cancelled shows, there was worry that they might not have enough footage in the can to get them to the event. As a result, according to the Observer “there was work done to try and do a last-minute booking of the Elks Lodge in Queens, NY, where ECW used to tape hot TV’s, because it’s only an 800-seat arena that ECW can fill with a week of publicity, for sometime over Thanksgiving weekend to shoot some new angles for the PPV.” This event would end up not taking place, “because there wasn’t enough time to finalize the deal and get the publicity out on television. They still may add a date in that building before the end of the year with the idea of making it an extra special house show and charging a high ticket price for the event.” This one would end up happening, with some very special guests. Bubba Ray and D-Von Dudley would make one final appearance for ECW at the same venue that they left in.




In early December, the Observer would report on cancelled events in Texas. This meant that after the December 3rd pay per view, the next ECW event would be on the 15th in the Elks Lodge. The Madhouse show was “a high ticket price event in order to try and catch up on bills, which was originally 12/21 but moved up one week because ECW would have had nothing for TV on 12/22.” Unfortunately for ECW though, the show wouldn’t draw as much money as the company needed it to. “while it sold out the 800 seats, (the show) failed to overflow with standing room as it usually did in the past, with tickets jacked up to $40 and $60.”




But what happened on the card itself? “The show was built around the return of the Dudleys, who worked the main event teaming with Tommy Dreamer over Simon Diamond & Swinger & Anderson and were clearly the stars of the show by leaps and bounds over the regulars.” While this was sure to get a reaction from the fans at the Madhouse, not everyone was happy, as “many were upset regarding the Dudleys not selling anything for the ECW guys, in particular Buh Buh not putting over the C.W. Anderson left hand which they push on television.”




Leading up to the night, ECW had been promoting another surprise star, who would turn out to be Taz, who would help the tag team champions Danny Doring and Roadkill. This may sound like an odd pairing, but Doring and Roadkill were actually proteges of Taz, two of the few graduates of the House of Hardcore training school. This return by Taz seems to have been received much better. “Tazz tried to give them a rub afterwards and apparently did a great job with the interview, doing his old catch phrase with a twist, “Beat them if you can, survive if they let you.””




2001

With ECW not long for the world, the December 15th show marks a sort of end of an era. It doesn’t mean however that wrestling stopped at the Elks Lodge though, nor was it the end for ECW wrestlers appearing there. In February 2001, another promotion would swoop in to take their place. “Chris Candido, Kash, Tajiri, Baldies, Mahoney and Whipwreck as well as Electra and Missy Hyatt all worked the 1/26 show for Ultimate Championship Wrestling in Queens at the Elks Lodge, the site of numerous ECW TV tapings, drawing about 400 fans.” The Observer in December notes that this is a new promotion holding their first show, and not the same Ultimate Wrestling Superstars that I mentioned earlier.




As well as the former ECW talent they booked, they also included several talents who would become more prominent names in the 2000’s. The Amazing Red, Homicide, Low-Ki and the SAT who would all work for Ring of Honor when that got started, would mix with half of the ECW roster. The other notable thing about UCW is that their shows appear to be marathons. This card from June of 2001 has fifteen matches on it, including a one night tournament and a battle royal. In September, UCW would run a free show at the Elks Lodge, and apparently expected it to be rammed with people, this wouldn’t be the case though. “According to those there, because it was free, it would have been expected to be a packed house, but only drew about 400 people. Low Ki and Red apparently tore down the house with a **** calibre match.”




At first there was annoyingly little information about Ultimate Championship Wrestling out there, not even a logo, and no listed events beyond this free event in late 2001. I noticed though, that their shows would include title defenses for Impact Championship Wrestling, which would continue to run the Elks Lodge until 2015, eventually becoming ICW No Holds Barred, which is still running today.




Another notable company that would begin to run in the Elks was USA Pro Wrestling, which began in New Jersey in ‘96, and first ran the former Madhouse in 2000. Promoted until 2021 by former wrestler Frank Goodman, USA pro appears to bridge a gap between being one of those companies that I talked about earlier, main evented by 80’s WWF stars, to later booking ex-ECW guys as well as indie talent. According to this note from the Observer, they were still booking Snuka vs Bundy as late as 2000. Can you imagine?




In 2003, Frank Goodman’s USA Pro would actually have a hand in another company being able to run their first ever show in New York. That company is known as Ring of Honor. There have been a few cases over the years of promotions needing to co-promote with a company that already has a license to promote in New York. Perhaps most famously, when AAA planned to run Madison Square Garden they had to co-promoted with Impact, and New Japan did with Ring of Honor for their MSG show. In this case, ROH co-promoted using Frank Goodman’s license. It was first reported in November 2002 in the Observer that ROH “will debut in New York at the Elks Lodge in Queens on 2/8 in a joint promotion with Frank Goodman’s USA Pro Wrestling (which, since it’ll be their license, will be the promotion of record).”




Ring of Honor, with the help of USA Pro, would hold their one year anniversary event at the Elks Lodge, the only ROH show that would ever be held there. This could potentially be because a storyline riot that would get a bit out of control would happen half way through the show, and that not being a great look for a building predominantly used as a church by this point. Another potential reason for no return date is that after years of threatening “The Elks Lodge in Queens, which had been rumored for years, dating back to the ECW days, to be shutting down wrestling, is going to do so in September.” While a little later than planned, USA Pro Wrestling would host the apparent last show at the Elks Lodge, titled “End of an Era.” The fifteen match card included a mix of up and coming indie talent and grizzled ECW veterans. From Low-Ki versus Sonjay Dutt to Shane Douglas versus the Sandman and a marathon show in between. In the main event, Raven would defend the USA Pro heavyweight title against Al Snow in a match that would last forty-five minutes. Can you imagine anything more threatening sounding than an almost hour long Al Snow match on a fifteen bout card? Before you say a half hour video on this channel, ye probably.




Ending




This is the third video that I’ve made for this channel about a former ECW venue, and it’s the only one that is still to this day predominantly known as theirs, approaching twenty five years since the company closed its doors. Unlike the Hammerstein Ballroom and the 2300 arena which have hosted many promotions since, the Madhouse of Extreme has stayed at the indie level when it has hosted wrestling. This is in part due to the new ownership, but the size of the venue doesn’t help either. Or that fire escape.




Early on in my reading for this video, I found this quote from an Observer that stuck with me about the Elks Lodge. It perhaps explains why major promotions never seem to run there, not since ECW at least. “One of ECW’s problems is that Heyman has often presented the product in buildings for atmosphere, such as the ECW Arena, or the Elks Lodge in Queens, but that even with a full house, the show itself ends up being a money loser.”




For better or worse, and I think history will probably say for worse, Paul Heyman had an interesting philosophy when it came to how he chose his venues. “Heyman, whose background from the night club business before wrestling taught him it’s better for the illusion of the club to pack a small hall, than to draw twice as many people in a three times as large building, taking in more money, but having empty seats give the impression it’s not a hot product.” This is the mentality of someone who wants to deliver the perception of a really hot product. One that fans are desperate to get through the door for, but not necessarily one that will sell enough tickets to sustain itself. Herein lies the problem with ECW running the smaller venues. Had they lived into the 2000’s, who knows where they would have found, or what ways they would have found, to draw bigger crowds?






Sources:

Intro

Paul Heyman on the building in 2013 https://vip.pwtorch.com/2023/09/11/10-yrs-ago-wwe-live-event-results-9-8-2013-shield-vs-usos-orton-vs-daniel-bryan-plus-punk-brie-bella-dean-ambrose-rvd-natalya-sami-drew-more/

Aztec theater https://www.scoutingny.com/the-incredible-aztec-theater-hidden-in-queens/

Barbed Wire City, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQjvW_w8Q_k (Link to section used)

PWT Jan 18th 97 - Wrestling had already been happening there https://vip.pwtorch.com/2017/01/07/vip-1997-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-423-jan-18-1997-wwf-shotgun-saturday-night-syndicated-program-debuts-part-two-of-joey-styles-torch-talk-more/

WON July 20th 92 - Earliest mention in Observer https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-20-1992-observer-newsletter-vader-makes-title-history-title-belt/

New York Pro Wrestling Results https://www.nyprowrestling.com/results/




1997

PWT April 12th - Paul on first show https://vip.pwtorch.com/2017/04/02/vip-1997-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-435-apr-12-1997-ecws-ppv-debut-preview-paul-heyman-interview-wcw-spring-stampede-ppv-more/

PWT Jan 3 98 Tiger Mask vs Sasuke https://vip.pwtorch.com/2017/12/26/vip-1998-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-473-january-3-1998-in-depth-starrcade-report-including-sting-capturing-wcw-title-from-hogan-plus-ratings-roundtable-reviews-and-more/




1998

WON March 16th 98 Sold out https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/march-16-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wcw-turmoil-talentnew/

WON March 23rd attendance number, Al Snow notes https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/march-23-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wcw-turmoil-ufc-16-tons/

WON July 6th 98 July sell out https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-6-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-king-ring/

WON Aug 3rd 98 losing New York https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-3-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-more-leno-and-wcw-wwf/

WON Sept 28th 98 Tapes https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-28-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-raw-overtakes-nitro/

WON Oct 12th 98 New York market https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/october-12-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-monday-night-war-ratings/

WON Dec 28th 98 New faces https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-28-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-bischoff-gets-historic/

WON Oct 19th 98 Long Island Wrestling Federation JYD show https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/october-19-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-pride-4-results-brian/

JYD show card https://www.nyprowrestling.com/results/1990s/1998.html




1999

WON Feb 22nd 99 Crossing the Line, money problems https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-22-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-having-financial/

PWT July 3rd Talent meeting ahead of TNN https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/29/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-555-july-3-1999-keller-dissects-hogans-interview-on-larry-king-live-cover-story-details-wwf-embarrassing-wcw-in-its-home-market-cover-sidebar/

PWT July 17th heyman interview post TNN deal https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/13/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-557-july-17-1999-cover-story-on-jesse-venturas-controversial-decision-to-be-guest-celebrity-at-summerslam-paul-heyman-interview-in-depth-cove/

WON August 30th 1999 Raven https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-30-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-summerslam-review/

PWT Sept 4th Elks being the real first TNN taping, Raven return and Public Enemy comment https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/31/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-564-september-4-1999-cover-story-detailing-wwfs-help-getting-steroid-doctor-suspended-cover-sidebar-looks-at-venturas-problems-with-media-co/

PWT September 4th End for the building https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/31/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-564-september-4-1999-cover-story-detailing-wwfs-help-getting-steroid-doctor-suspended-cover-sidebar-looks-at-venturas-problems-with-media-co/




2000

WON Nov 20th 2000 Potentially used one last time in Nov 2000 https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-20-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-shinya-hashimoto-fired/

WON Nov 27th 2000 more on above

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-27-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-survivor-series-review/

WON Dec 4th 00 One last show in December - Dudleys https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-4-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-turmoil-wcw-mayhem/

WON Dec 25th 00 Show didn’t do well https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-25-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-blue-demon-passes-away/




2001

WON Feb 5th 01 NAPTE - UCW runs Elks

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-5-2001-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-signs-justin/

WON Dec 18th 00 - Another Ultimate in 2001 https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/december-18-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-armageddon-reviewed/

UCW Results https://www.nyprowrestling.com/results/2000s/2001.html

WON Sept 25th 01 Free show doesn’t do well https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/september-25-2001-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ufc-reenters-ppv/

WON May 8th 00 USA Pro Wrestling Frank Goodman https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/may-8-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-backlash-review-sakuraba/

WON Nov 25th 02 ROH First noted - Fank Goodmans USA-PW https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-25-2002-observer-newsletter-survivor-series-review-more-97565/

WON June 9th 03 Venue apparently closing again https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/june-9-2003-observer-newsletter-career-and-death-freddie-blassie-97627/

WON Nov 17th 03 Last show there advertised https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/november-17-2003-observer-newsletter-bob-sapp-vs-akebono-death-crash/




Ending

Venue Money loser https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/october-9-2000-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wcw-sale-rumors-rock/

WON Feb 22nd 99 nightclub quote

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/february-22-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-having-financial/

The story of ECW on TNN is one that a lot of fans know the gist of. The two sides had a year long relationship which went downhill pretty quickly, and ended very bitterly with ECW not far from going out of business, and the channel ready to welcome WWE. Did you know however, that it didn’t exactly start in the best way either?


When I looked into the timeline starting from the beginnings of TNN expressing an interest in adding wrestling to their schedule, I found that the road towards episode one airing was a bit bumpier than you might have known. And so that's what we’re going to look at here.


In this video, we’ll look at the state of ECW in mid-1999. We’ll then look at some of the problems that ECW faced before they even went on the air. Then finally we’ll look at TNN episode one, to see what hit screens in the end.


ECW in 1999


While the official announcement of the TNN show would happen at the end of June, it’s important to understand the state of ECW at the time. In April the Wrestling Observer would claim that even two years before the end, cheques were bouncing and talent wasn't getting paid. “There have been several bounced checks again over the past two weeks starting a lot of rumors about the company being one step from the grave. Paul Heyman again met with the wrestlers on 4/17 and said that everything would be okay financially in another month. Since he’s said that before, the confidence in those statements is pretty low”. There were however deals on the table that looked like they could help ECW stay afloat. For example, Paul Heyman was attempting to strike a deal with Acclaim Entertainment to licence ECW video games. This deal was very important for the company, as Wade Killer notes in the Pro Wrestling Torch, as it could potentially make ECW “solvent and debt-free for the first time in well over a year.” The alternative for Paul was by far a less desirable option. “Without the deal, there are rumors of the WWF or WCW being interested in bailing out ECW in return for part or whole ownership.”


In June (WONJun7), Paul would eventually land the video game deal, and Hardcore Revolution, which played suspiciously like a previous Acclaim title, WWF Attitude, would be released in February 2000. This alone wasn't going to rid Heyman of his financial woes, but larger national exposure on television might. A week later Wade would add that “Acclaim will likely strike a video game deal with whoever ends up with The Nashville Network deal. If that is the case, ECW’s future strongly hinges on getting a clearance on TNN.” As Wade is alluding to here, TNN was looking to add wrestling to it’s schedule, and had a few options on the table.


While ECW was struggling to make deals to keep themselves going, the channel formerly known as the Nashville Network was looking to rebrand itself. In the April 19th Observer, before ECW was in talks with them, it was reported that there was “a lot of talk about TNN carrying pro wrestling starting in August on Friday nights in prime time, either in the current RollerJam time slot, or as part of a two-hour block.” While Dave Meltzer speculates that this could lead to a new promotion starting up, he says that “TNN had talked with both ECW and NWA about the slot. ECW had a meeting scheduled for early this week with TNN, so the fact there was a meeting says that they must still be in contention”. TNN were even looking at much smaller groups who weren’t yet known on a national level. Another candidate in the running was “Howard Lipkint’s group out of Las Vegas,” which could well have become the very short lived WXO, which would end up only running only one television taping before going out of business. It’s here in the timeline where we get to the first major problem that ECW faced on the way to landing the TNN deal, one of their biggest stars leaving on fiercely bad terms.


Hardcore Heaven 1999


On May 16th ‘99 ECW presented it’s Hardcore Heaven pay per view from Poughkeepsie New York. While the show is perhaps best remembered for a battle between Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn, who had stolen the show at the last pay per view too, what was going on behind the scenes was far more interesting. (WONMay24) Representatives from several television channels were backstage watching the show, including TNN, Showtime, and MTV, as ECW had been in talks with all of them. With all of these important people backstage, Paul Heyman needed to book a show putting ECW’s best foot forward, but it wouldn’t happen without drama.


Just one day before the pay per view, one of Paul’s top stars would appear on an indie show at the ECW Arena called ‘Breaking the Barrier,’ which I talked about in more detail in my video about the historic venue. At this event, Shane Douglas would cut a scathing promo against ECW in the ring, quitting the company in the process. Shane’s issues with Paul had been growing for a while. He reportedly didn’t attend the previous weekend's event in Philadelphia because he was told that he wasn’t welcome after previously being booked. Paul Heyman told the Torch, “I had a conversation with Shane Douglas at the beginning of last week at which point I told him that it’s better for the locker room and better for he and I not to be in the same locker room and that the time had come for us to go our separate ways.” Heyman then went even further, claiming that “Douglas threatened to “expose the real financial status of ECW” to TNN to try to kill the deal.” Of all the people who Paul Heyman has had a public falling out with over the years, Shane Douglas is one of the few that he doesn’t seem to have made up with, so there could have been some truth to this reporting.


Upon finding out about Shane quitting, Paul knew he had to do something to save face with the TV reps. He would call in a huge star who had worked sporadic dates for the company. Someone who he knew would look impressive to the network reps. Paul would, at 11:30 the night before the pay per view, call Sid Vicious, who luckily made it to the event in time. This ended up from a TV rep standpoint a genius move by Paul, as he was able to show “that Douglas’ loss on the show wouldn’t be missed and that he was replacing him with a bigger star that the fans would pop big for when he showed up, which is what happened.” However from a booking standpoint it would end up being bittersweet. Paul’s plan was for Sid to receive the biggest ovation from the crowd possible, hopefully impressing the reps. He did this though, by sacrificing two of his up and coming top heels, Justin Credible and Lance Storm.


I talked about this in more detail in my video about Sid in ECW, but in short, the segment would be just a bit of a mess. Justin, who had been supposed to face Shane Douglas, would be interrupted in the ring by Sid and his manager Judge Jeff Jones. It would take Justin’s cane, which seemingly had no effect, Lance Storm, Jayson Knight, and a run in by Sabu to finally beat down Sid, who would pop up from all of it like a movie monster, only to attack Jeff Jones afterwards. In itself, the segment makes the best of a bad situation brought about by Shane quitting, but Justin and Lance came out of it looking a bit ineffectual against Sid, who wasn’t going to be staying. Sid would only make one more appearance in ECW, teasing an ongoing story with Justin and Sabu, but this would never come to anything.


Justin in particular had been quite protected up to this point, and was a project of Paul’s. He had beaten many an ECW great, and was likely set to beat Douglas, but the booking on this night didn’t exactly make him look strong. It would take nearly a year after this to finally get him onto the main event level. Despite all of the chaos at Hardcore Heaven, Paul Heyman must have done something right. The June 7th Observer reports that ECW was basically all but confirmed officially to be coming to TNN later in the year. Dave does say though that “The contracts have yet to be signed and all the terms haven’t been exactly worked out.”


On June 30th, after nearly a month of questioning, the official announcement would be made. In the coverage we learn the reason for the 8pm timeslot. “ECW has been slotted in the early-evenings because it is considered the best bet to draw a strong lead-in audience for TNN’s RollerJam and Championship Rodeo and Motor Madness shows that follow.” When asked about this, Paul Heyman wasn’t perturbed in any way by the timeslot not exactly being what he was used to. “we bring to the table something that they need which is a strong lead-in for Roller Jam. We already have the core audience and hopefully we can expand that audience. But it’s a proven product on late-night television. That’s something that they need.”


“ECW didn’t exactly have a ton of leverage in negotiations since they are an unproven product on a national scale that has gone through a year of financial problems. The bounced checks to wrestlers, arenas, and suppliers became an embarrassment for the company.”


Paul Heyman, as you can imagine, phrases it differently, telling the Torch “I think it is an incredibly intelligent deal on behalf of a network that understands what their exposure is going to bring to this company. And they have every right to ask for that because they’re the ones that are going to put us on the map. It certainly gives us a chance to entice more people to buy our tapes or shirts or dolls or whatever else we’re selling, including our tickets and our pay-per-views.” Paul's mentality, and I suppose this had to be the way he looked at it, was that if TNN helped ECW grow, then TNN were going to take a cut from that. Therefore it’s in the network's best interest to work with him, and then all could reap the rewards. This line from Wade though, pulls back the curtain a bit on what TNN’s approach was, and how different it was to Paul’s. “TNN privately is touting the deal as a no-lose situation for them. They get a huge percentage of all ECW revenue above what current levels in every category – from PPV and arena shows to merchandising and websites. TNN also reserves the right to buy ten percent of ECW after one year.”


Paul Heyman would waste no time in telling his audience about the big news, and he would do it on the air. On July 3rd at the Elks Lodge in Queens, Paul Heyman would stand in the ring and tell the fans that on August 13th ECW would start on TNN. Remember this date because it’ll become more important later. Joey Styles would then confirm that this 13th date is a special episode, with the main series beginning on August 27th at 8pm.


Heat Wave 1999


Paul's announcement would air for television viewers on July 17th, one night before ECW’s next pay per view, and Heyman’s next big headache. Unlike the previous years Heat Wave, which is regarded among fans to be one of the best ECW events, the ‘99 version is largely remembered mainly for an unscripted part of the show, and it involved Bubba Ray Dudley.


There had been several nights where Bubba had stirred up the fans so much that they wanted to get in the ring and fight him. This one from Elks Lodge is my personal favourite, with a fan going over the balcony to try and get to Bubba. At Heat Wave, his promo was so antagonistic towards the fans, picking out individuals and being quite vulgar in his jokes, that there were claims that he nearly incited a riot in the building. According to the Torches' coverage of the event, Bubba it seems would catch a lot of the heat for this, essentially being punished for his verbiage. “Sources say Heyman was hoping Buh Buh would become a locker room leader heading into the TNN show. Instead, Buh Buh has earned himself a place in the dog house of Heyman and the wrestlers in general.“


But given that riling the crowd up was a normal part of the Dudley’s act, why did it get Bubba in so much hot water this time? What you might not have heard before, is that TNN reps were again in the building as they were at Hardcore Heaven, and they were none too impressed with Bubba’s promo, nor the overly violent match that followed, where Spike Dudley and Balls Mahoney would win back the tag team titles against Bubba Ray and D-Von. “This match and pre-match turned out to be controversial, as there were folks in the cable industry in particular at Viewers Choice and also at TNN who were upset about the pre-match mic work by Buh Buh, both the level of the swearing and inciting the crowd, feeling he was inciting a riot, and the match, in particular the close-ups of the blood and the flaming tables.” This wasn’t helped by the idea of some that Bubba knew exactly what he was doing. “Many believe Buh Buh knew his comments were crossing the line (especially the racial comment) but claim Buh Buh is starting to believe his own hype and is too concerned with his gimmick of being the “greatest tag team in history.”” That last part is pretty funny if you’ve heard Bubba continuing to make this claim in 2025.


As far as the violence of the match, the network reps’ reaction to this actually influenced the rest of the show. Later in the night Taz would defeat Yoshihiro Tajiri, retaining his ECW World title in a match with a quite unique finish. Taz would be awarded the win by submission, as he choked Tajiri with barbed wire, during which the camera angle shown was from the very top end of the building, meaning the TV viewers could barely tell what was going on. This was apparently done as a direct reaction to the TV reps being unhappy with the violence shown in the Dudleys match, something I’d always wondered about. It does make you wonder though, did TNN properly know what they were getting, and was there perhaps any buyers remorse, a month before the premiere air date?


As ECW got closer to the premier date, it seemed that they just couldn’t stay out of trouble. In fact, they would find impressive new ways to get in trouble. In the July 26th Observer, it’s noted that “Joel Gertner will work with Joey Styles as the announcing team for the TNN shows. It’s something of a debatable decision.” it would become even more of a debatable decision a few days later, after Joel would cross the line on that weeks Hardcore TV. But first, some context. On July 16th 1999, John F Kennedy Jr would pilot a plane that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean not far from Martha's Vineyard airport in Massachusetts. You may be wondering what this could possibly have to do with Extreme Championship Wrestling? On the July 24th ‘99 episode of Hardcore TV, Joel Gertner would go on a lengthy and ill advised rant about the recent death of JFK Jr. Joel’s rant was clearly meant to be about how much of the news coverage was spent on the story and seemingly not much else, but it being Joel Gertner, it was laced with distasteful jokes, most notably ones comparing Kennedy’s anatomy with a part of the plane. As you could probably imagine, this did not sit well with the media.


TV Guide published a critical article, and the MSG network went as far as to not even air the segment, instead replacing it with commercials. Paul Heyman on the other hand was quoted to be happy with the attention it got them, and he “assumes TNN is happy with the media attention heading into the show’s debut.” Explaining the piece, Heyman told the Torch ““We were looking for controversy, more or less, without using violence or swearing,” he said. He added that the company was trying to “demonstrate our attention to pop culture,” and said he helped Gertner write the piece which he claims was inspired by a Dennis Leary comedy routine.” Despite Paul being happy with the attention the segment received, this and the incident at Heat Wave weren’t a good look approaching the new show on TNN, which TV Guide described in their article as “TV’s traditionally wholesome Nashville Network.” You might think that Joel’s position on the TNN show might be reconsidered, but Paul would double down and keep him beside Joey when the series would air. When Dave Meltzer questioned the use of Joel as a broadcast team with Joey, his reasoning was that “Gertner is great at delivering pre-planned lines for short interviews, but there’s a big difference between that and thinking on your feet and not running out of things to say for a 60 minute television show.” Ironically, Joel’s pre planned routines are what got him in more hot water than anything, but Paul was ready to welcome any publicity as good publicity at the time.


The TV Tapings


On August 13th, TNN was supposed to air a ‘History of ECW’ special, catching new fans up to what the company is all about, while the prospective August 20th one was going to introduce the current roster and storylines. “TNN will not be airing the history of ECW show which was initially talked about for the two Fridays before it’s regular Friday night debut on Aug. 27. The network was open to the idea of airing the show but Paul Heyman says he turned them down because they ran out of time to properly promote it.” As I noted earlier the show was first mentioned on television on July 3rd, yet somehow there was not enough time to promote it. I could more believe Paul’s next reason, “All of the newspaper and magazine articles about ECW on TNN have listed Aug. 27 as the debut date. Heyman didn’t want to end up debuting on the network with a low rating and will instead wait for the heavily-hyped Aug. 27 series debut.” There is an alternative, maybe more accurate depending on who you believe suggestion posed in the Observer, which claims that the shows “didn’t materialize due to no show being provided by deadline.” This is not the best start, but it’s not going to get any better.


On the August 14th episode of Hardcore TV, Joey Styles makes some pretty interesting comments about the company’s new business partner, again before the first episode has even aired, and right after they’ve already missed a deadline. Part way through the episode, Joey directly addresses the New York fans watching on the MSG Network, relating to the TNN taping set to take place in Queens on August 26th. He stresses that this is not just a national TV taping, but now with the new coverage in Canada this is an international one. The concerning comments would come next. “If I may I’m gonna shoot for you fans. TNN didn’t want us to tape their TV show at the Elks Lodge, the madhouse of extreme. They said it’s not a TV worthy building. We want a five thousand seat building where we can hang a lighting grid and have a big ramp, no. ECW fought to have a TNN taping at the madhouse of extreme, the Elks Lodge.” He ends by saying “We will see you from there whether they like it or not, and they will like it because the ratings will prove it.” Admittedly, it’s fair to point out that this was a localised ad that was just going out to their New York fans, and it was said with the rebellious tone and attitude that ECW was known for, but it’s still a pretty daft move to say to your most loyal fans “that new network we just joined, they don’t want you.” Especially again, before episode one has even aired.


On the same day, August 14th, ECW held what was supposed to be tapings for the launch episode. The card had been stacked, with a dream partners tag team match pitting Rob Van Dam and Justin Credible against Jerry Lynn and Sabu, I promise you I said that right because those pairings make no sense. A big tag team championship change had been planned too. Actually, a few big changes had been planned. “There was consideration given to booking two singles title changes at the initial TNN tapings. Jerry Lynn to defeat Rob Van Dam in the first hour to capture the TV Title, then Van Dam beating Taz to capture the ECW Hvt. Title during the second hour. Taz signing a contract last week probably led to the change in plans.” Taz had quite openly been in talks with WWE at the time, and while it wouldn’t be long until he did leave, he had told Paul he would be staying, leading to his plans changing.


While some of the taping would be used as episodes of Hardcore TV, like Spike and Balls defeating the Dudleys for the tag team titles, much of the night's taping was deemed “unairable,” and wasn’t seen on TNN. “Sources say Heyman was visibly disappointed after the show. He didn’t consider the event a disaster and cited the strong crowd reaction as a positive, but said the show just didn’t come off as well as he expected. After viewing the footage, Heyman is said to have lightened up and admitted to friends that he may have set his expectations too high.“ For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that “although Heyman didn’t like the Toledo ECW/TNN tapings, TNN officials who were on hand were apparently thrilled with the initial taping. After the main event, the representatives reportedly hugged several members of the ECW crew and voiced their approval. They also took the time to meet some of the wrestlers before and after the show.” It is never made clear what exactly Heyman wasn’t happy about, not specifically at least, with the Torch saying that he was “disappointed in the way some of the booking plans came across.” If I were being a conspiracy theorist, given the comments Joey Styles made earlier I wouldn’t be shocked if Paul just wanted the first TNN taped matches to come from the Elks Lodge taping on August 26th, but we’ll never really know.


In one last note before the first episode aired, Wade Keller claimed that “Sources within the cable industry are saying TNN expects a 3.0 rating from ECW from the start. TNN launched a cross-channel advertising campaign last Friday to hype the series debut”. To put this number into a bit of perspective, the previous episode of Raw had drawn a 6.6 rating, and Nitro the same night a 3.3. It would be a tough ask for ECW to match Nitro on it’s very first week, especially since a few weeks earlier, Wade had printed that “TNN is a low rated cable network, but they do draw peak ratings around 2.0 for big NASCAR broadcasts.”


Episode One


This finally brings us to episode one of ECW on TNN, which would air on August 27th 99. For all of the pitfalls and unfortunate events that had taken place on the way to this night, ECW would take full advantage of it’s first hour, doing their very best to set themselves apart from the other promotions. The first thing we see is a cold open of the Dudleys putting Balls Mahoney through a table that is on fire. Over the top of it, Joey Styles confidently tells us “this isn't the WWF. This isn’t WCW. This is ECW on TNN!”


On the debut broadcast, ECW would air essentially what the preview specials would have been. The only unique content being Joey Styles’ links between segments. They started by showing the entirety of the Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn TV title match from the recent Hardcore Heaven pay per view. While this match was undoubtedly an ECW classic, and helpful because it filled almost half of the hour, it wasn’t exactly the original content that TNN had wanted, but at least it was a very popular match, and one that was going to draw in any new fan. There are far worse ways to give a first impression.


Next, ECW would make an absolutely genius move. Instead of just showing their former world champions or current stars which they would do later, Joey introduced a list of big names who used to work for ECW, making the point that all of them failed to capture the ECW world title despite being massively successful elsewhere. Names like Konnan, Cactus jack, and even Steve Austin. If a brand new fan were tuning in and saw that Steve Austin, who was the WWF champion at the time, had tried and failed to win the ECW belt, it might well leave them asking how good must the ECW locker room be?


They would follow this up with another very clever move, by introducing some former ECW World champions, two of the most notable being Raven and Sandman. The reason this is so clever is that both had recently been working for WCW, and were each on their way back, set to appear on TNN very soon. Raven had, in fact, returned to ECW just twenty four hours earlier at the Queens TV taping, interfering in the main event for the tag team titles, preventing the Dudley Boyz from taking the belts to WWE with them, by winning them with his fierce rival Tommy Dreamer. Sandman wouldn’t be back in ECW for a few more weeks, making his triumphant surprise return at the ECW arena on October 23rd ‘99. It was then, a very smart move for ECW to highlight these two, given that they would be a major part of the show very soon.


Up next we get our second match of the night, a World title bout that originally aired on the June 26th ‘99 Hardcore TV, where Taz would face the rookie monster of Steve Corino. That rookie monster was Rhino. Taz would beat Rhino handily in just a couple of minutes, and knowing the absolute killer Rhino would become in ECW, it’s crazy to see him as essentially enhancement talent in this match with Taz, his first ever on ECW television.


One more quite interesting thing that ECW aired was a very brief match, just seconds long in fact, but it really got across the rowdy nature of the Queens New York fans. Spike Dudley versus Big Sal, who they name on the lower third as “600lb Sal Graziano versus Little Spike the Giant Killer”. As it turns out, this match was actually taped a full year earlier. It aired originally on the August 29th 1998 episode of Hardcore TV, and was probably chosen because it came from the Elks Lodge, where the following week's TNN episode had been taped from. Spike would hit a low blow and an Acid Drop for the win in about thirty seconds. As I mentioned in my quick recap of Sal’s career in a recent video, Sal lost to Spike many times, often to get the crowd cheering, but also to get across Spike’s giant killer persona.


The rest of the hour would be spent briefly introducing each member of the ECW roster, with a particular focus on Lance Storm and Justin Credible who are among the few who get promo time. We see cleverly edited clips of them beating down well known names like the Dudleys and Shane Douglas. I say cleverly, because they at one point show Justin and Lance beating up Sid Vicious from Hardcore Heaven, not including the part where Sid rises like a movie monster and destroys them.


Following a Kid Rock music video showing off the rest of the roster, the show ends with a promo from the World champion, Taz. We see footage of him choking out who else but Shane Douglas, because Paul has never shied away from being spiteful from time to time. Taz promises that he will continue to tap out all challengers, and he would for a little bit longer.


After all the talk before the show aired of a 3.0 rating, how would episode one actually do? “The first broadcast of ECW drew a 0.9 rating, the highest rated show on TNN that night.” Most importantly, they would do much better than Rollerjam, which only earned a 0.6. If you’ve never watched a video on this channel before, I promise I don’t usually talk about ratings, but here it’s significant. The next week Wade would explain a bit more about the high estimate. “The second ECW program on TNN grew to 1.0 rating, which is in line with what TNN executives hoped and expected the show would draw in its first few weeks. TNN officials guaranteed advertisers a 2.0 average rating for the first season, but it is standard practice in the advertising industry to oversell ratings rather than undersell them.” Over the next few months, the shows ratings would show slow growth just as Paul had predicted, regularly passing 1.0, at least until late in the run, when things were really going South between the two sides. The highest rating that the show would ever draw on a few different occasions was a 1.3.


Conclusion


I’ve been quite critical of ECW through this video, but I will say one thing. While watching the first episode of ECW on TNN, I really forgot all about the many hurdles they tripped over to get there.


It’s been said many times that Paul Heyman was an excellent wrestling booker, and that his greatest skill was being able to accentuate the positives of a talent, and hide away their weaknesses. You can do this in a lot of areas in life, like PR and promotion, but unfortunately you can’t just hide away the negatives in business. Why the ECW and TNN relationship failed is a conversation that has to look more at the run of the show itself, but I’ve tried to show that as rough as the road to the debut was, the first episode was booked in a manner that Paul always tried to, by hiding ECW’s negatives, and leaving you wanting more.




Sources:

WON Apr 26th 99 Bounced cheques https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/april-26-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-davy-boy-smith-recovering/

PWT May 1st Acclaim deal https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/04/27/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-546-may-1-1999-cover-story-on-death-of-rick-rude-coverage-of-wwe-breakdown-ppv-headlined-with-steve-austin-vs-rock-and-triple-h-vs-x-pac-more/

WON May 3rd Acclaim deal https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/may-3-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-death-rick-rude-wwf-backlash/

WON Jun 7th Acclaim landed, WXO https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/june-7-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-fallout-death-owen-hart/

PWT May 8th Acclaim deal link to TNN https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/05/04/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-547-may-8-1999-cover-story-looking-at-latest-signs-of-wcws-follies-wwf-newswire-detailing-growing-backstage-tension-between-austin-and-the-roc/

WON April 19th TNN rebrand https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/april-19-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-davey-boy-smith/



WON May 24th TNN, Showtime and MTV reps at Hardcore Heaven https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/may-24-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-ecw-hardcore-heavenwwf-no/

PWT May 22nd Shane Douglas Heyman heat https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/05/17/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-549-may-22-1999-cover-story-titled-ecw-features-good-matches-puzzling-booking-coverage-of-ecw-hardcore-heaven-ppv-newswire-on-goldbergs/


JUNE


PWT June 12th Mixed replorting, Kulas https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/08/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-552-june-12-1999-cover-story-on-hart-family-and-wwf-clashing-over-usage-of-funeral-footage-of-owen-hart-second-cover-story-on-sables-110-mill/

PWY Jul 3rd RVD 1 https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/29/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-555-july-3-1999-keller-dissects-hogans-interview-on-larry-king-live-cover-story-details-wwf-embarrassing-wcw-in-its-home-market-cover-sidebar/

WON June 28th RVD 2 https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/june-28-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-reaction-wwf-contracted/

PWT July 10th Official announcement https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/06/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-556-july-10-1999-details-on-jerichos-decision-to-jump-from-wcw-to-wwf-cover-story-featuring-extensive-exclusive-quotes-from-heyman-on-ecw-clea/


JULY


HW99

PWT Jul 31st Heat on Bubba https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/27/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-559-july-31-1999-cover-story-on-vince-talking-about-owen-tragedy-on-tsn-kellers-end-notes-examining-veracity-of-mcmahons-comments-lette/

WON July 26th 1999 - Bubba upsets TNN reps at Heat Wave, Gertner https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/july-26-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-governor-jesse-ventura/

PWT July 31st JFK jr https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/07/27/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-559-july-31-1999-cover-story-on-vince-talking-about-owen-tragedy-on-tsn-kellers-end-notes-examining-veracity-of-mcmahons-comments-lette/


AUGUST

PWT August 14 Intro special not aired https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/10/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-561-august-14-1999-cover-story-on-wwfs-financial-status-being-revealed-in-ipo-long-wwf-newswire-including-quote-from-vince-saying-f-them/

WON Aug 30th Intro not aired

https://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-newsletter/august-30-1999-wrestling-observer-newsletter-wwf-summerslam-review/

PWT Aug 21st Problems with first taping https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/17/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-562-august-21-1999-cover-story-on-wwf-banking-on-ventura-drawing-new-fans-wwf-newswire-featuring-austin-upsetting-wwf-wrestlers-with-his-influen/

PWT June 12th Nascar quote https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/06/08/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-552-june-12-1999-cover-story-on-hart-family-and-wwf-clashing-over-usage-of-funeral-footage-of-owen-hart-second-cover-story-on-sables-110-mill/

PWT Sept 4th Ep 1 recap and notes https://vip.pwtorch.com/2019/08/31/vip-1999-back-issue-pro-wrestling-torch-564-september-4-1999-cover-story-detailing-wwfs-help-getting-steroid-doctor-suspended-cover-sidebar-looks-at-venturas-problems-with-media-co/

ECW on TNN ratings https://www.angelfire.com/pa2/RAWisWAR/ECWTNNRatings.html